I no longer believe in heaven or hell. Muslim

It's okay, you can still be a Muslim and not believe in heaven or hell. This is because it's your interpretation of the faith - if you don't see a rational reason for heaven or hell (or even believing in a God) then why would you be punished by God for thinking? Every Muslim is different, you are allowed to have your views.

Personally I'm a Muslim who believes in God but I don't literally believe in heaven or hell - or even a God that affects what happens in the world we live in. Maybe there is something resembling heaven or hell I am not sure. I just think this isn't all and there's something else - that is Allah.

You can believe in a liberal interpretation if it suits you all you want - or even leave the faith if you feel like it. Don't feel pressure to stay please as that itself is unislamic to force you.

The most famous logicians of all time believe in spirits or God - and one in particular openly said that an Afterlife is logical.

You can't (to a lot of things in the quoted post).

OP ignore the above information because what he is saying goes against Islamic basics.

Nice. So I'm wrong and you're right, cool. Let's break down your stupid statement.

1)ISIS think you're an infidel because you don't take the Quran as literally as them. (They literally think this, I'm not making this up)
2)You think I'm an infidel because I don't take the Quran as literally as you.

Now, who's correct? Going purely by logic, ISIS are correct here as they take the Quran most literally.

"Islamic basics" please define the basics of Islam. You may give me the 5 pillars, but ISIS will give me many more basics and Saudi Arabians will give me some other basics and Indonesian Muslims will give different basics of Islam. The point I'm making is everyone takes the Islamic faith in a different interpretation and you can't say one is right or wrong - or else that makes you a fundamentalist.

p.s. if I am going against Islamic basics for not believing in a metaphorical scripture literally then how come you probably have friends who are Christians or Jews? Chapter 5 verse 52. Doesn't that also make you an infidel?

Great point. Most of the Muslim friends I have are on same spectrum as you. I personally do not understand the fundamentalist types, you have to adapt to the 21st century. My friends have said that the Quran asks for its believers to seek greater truth/ knowledge.

Same here,some of these ISOC people are crazy.

Nice. So I'm wrong and you're right, cool. Let's break down your stupid statement.

1)ISIS think you're an infidel because you don't take the Quran as literally as them. (They literally think this, I'm not making this up)
2)You think I'm an infidel because I don't take the Quran as literally as you.

Now, who's correct? Going purely by logic, ISIS are correct here as they take the Quran most literally.

"Islamic basics" please define the basics of Islam. You may give me the 5 pillars, but ISIS will give me many more basics and Saudi Arabians will give me some other basics and Indonesian Muslims will give different basics of Islam. The point I'm making is everyone takes the Islamic faith in a different interpretation and you can't say one is right or wrong - or else that makes you a fundamentalist.

p.s. if I am going against Islamic basics for not believing in a metaphorical scripture literally then how come you probably have friends who are Christians or Jews? Chapter 5 verse 52. Doesn't that also make you an infidel?

Same here,some of these ISOC people are crazy.

You really have next to no clue about Islam or what you're talking about.

There are things on which there is no difference of opinion - such as heaven and hell. If anyone says anything different then it's false and they will rejected.

Islam isn't a religion where any Tom, Dick or Harry, can come and say "that's my interpretation and that's Islam for me".

Well one basic is that there is heaven and hell and there is no other opinion on this.

You can say something is right or wrong, especially on clear matters like this where there is only room for one thing. Fundamentalist? No it makes me a normal Muslim.

I don't have any.

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So being a muslim a strong beleif my whole life this is weird. Like starting 2 years ago I was loosing faith in God which is kinda sad.

It was cos of a guy but I feel like I am no longer afraid of sinning. I never think satan is influencing me or that I need to obey god and make him happy with me like I used to be.

I don't think about heaven or hell anymore which shocks me.

I would love to renew my faith once again. Pm please if you think u can help.



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As a Muslim for 16 years and a strong follower of many scholars, professors and public figures like Maajid Nawaz and Reza Aslan - I think I know what I'm talking about.

Now you just cherry picked Heaven and Hell as something I am forced to believe in. Why just them? Are the other things in the Quran like not being allowed to have Christian friends not worthy enough to be believed? Someone who chooses to believe in half of a scripture is a fundamentalist. I believe in the entire Quran - symbolically.

"Islam isn't a religion where any Tom, Dick or Harry, can come and say "that's my interpretation and that's Islam for me"." Yet you have a different interpretation of Islam than ISIS, me or some Indonesian Muslim. Who is correct?

"Well one basic is that there is heaven and hell and there is no other opinion on this." Yes there is, my opinion and potentially hundreds of thousands of secular Muslims. Lol.

You've never been friends with a Christian or Jew ever in your life? Okay...

You don't know what you're talking about. The fact you're a follower of Reza Aslan and Maajid Nawaaz is probably the reason. The former is someone who holds some strange unislamic beliefs and the latter is heralded far and wide as an enemy of the British Muslims and a hypocrite.

Symbolically is a nice cop out. In other words you reject various parts of the Quran.

Let me make this clear. There is no difference of opinion over this hell/heaven issue. It is basic Islam. If a 16 year old disagrees then he's obviously wrong.

There are legitimate differences of opinion on some issues where a considerable number of legitimate scholars (not 16 year old followers of Maajid Nawaaz) may argue a different view. There are no differences of opinion on other issues such as : Allah being one, the Quran fully being the word of Allah, heaven and hell, homosexuality being impermissible. On these issues there is no leway because is ijma.

Secular Muslim is an oxymoron.

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sigh. Rubbishing PHd. scholars on religion is a sad, sad low. He holds more knowledge about religion in his left thumb then you will ever acquire in your life. He knows what he's talking about - you don't.

It's clear I can't get this through your head - sadly. Please don't avoid my last two points. ISIS say you're wrong and you say I'm wrong. Who's right? You don't literally believe Prophet Mohammed went to heave on a winged horse. Do you?

Homosexuality impermissible? This is vile thinking - in fact the Ottoman Empire were one of the first nations in the world to legalise homosexuality. Millions of Muslims disagree with you and many of them are gay themselves. It's *****y thinking like yours that lead to terrorist attacks. Disgrace. Not only that, but you get your idea of it being impermissible from a very careful interpretation of a Quranic story. It could be interpreted in a million other ways.

"Symbolically is a nice cop out. " Thanks!

.

They're wrong as a whole, modern day khawarij from the looks of it.

And yet you accept Hadith narrated by khawarij.

You sure? I am technically a hanafi and the particular hadith (no doubt the homosexuality one) you're talking about is rejected by hanafis (AFAIk) so...

Even then Epicurean, I wouldn't trust your word on hadiths anyway. I prefer listening to real hadith scholars and looking at the full picture, rather than taking a few select lines from some athiest whose obsessed with demonizing normal Muslims

But you don't reject every Hadith by him do you? Which is to say that you have no qualms with khawarij narrating Hadith.



I've not made any comments on Hadith in this thread, other than to state that you are quite happy to accept Hadith narrated by khawarij.

Ah yes, is that what you call yourself now. "Normal Muslim"

I don't know. I might do, I might not. I leave hadith science to the experts for now and let them decide what counts as authentic based on their methodology.

Yes but we do know why you mentioned that and that's because you claim a khawarij was involved in transmitted the anti homosexuality hadith. Can we really not play this dumb

Well ofcourse, I hold many normal Islamic beliefs which have been acknowledged as being correct through the ages by 10,000s of learned scholars and hence "normal Muslim".