The Student Room Group

Baroness Warsi defects from Leave to Remain

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Original post by Bornblue
I'm not a fan of bigotry.
Perhaps we can stop playing to it eh?


Are you saying it is bigoted to be wary of allowing large numbers of people from an alien culture to live and work in the country, coming as they would in this case from a society which appears to be moving backwards in terms of compatibility with western mores (and is demonstrating greater intolerance to behaviours and beliefs they don't like)? Must I tolerate the intolerant, even though they may threaten my safety?

I won't even mention the Kurds.
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Original post by Good bloke
Are you saying it is bigoted to be wary of allowing large numbers of people from an alien culture to live and work in the country, coming as they would in this case from a society which appears to be moving backwards in terms of compatibility with western mores (and is demonstrating greater intolerance to behaviours and beliefs they don't like)? Must I tolerate the intolerant, even though they may threaten my safety?

I won't even mention the Kurds.


Except, they aren't coming.
Original post by Good bloke
Are you saying it is bigoted to be wary of allowing large numbers of people from an alien culture to live and work in the country, coming as they would in this case from a society which appears to be moving backwards in terms of compatibility with western mores (and is demonstrating greater intolerance to behaviours and beliefs they don't like)? Must I tolerate the intolerant, even though they may threaten my safety?

I won't even mention the Kurds.

It's an irrelevance. They aren't joining.
Original post by Chris1479
Way to go supporting Erdogan and his bombing of the Kurds / support of ISIS and then, this is rich, calling someone else bigoted.

Go and read up on Turkey and get back to us ok?


They're not joining. Stop scaremongering.
Original post by Chris1479
Way to go supporting Erdogan and his bombing of the Kurds / support of ISIS and then, this is rich, calling someone else bigoted.

Go and read up on Turkey and get back to us ok?


Funny how everyone cares about the Kurds now.

No one gave a **** when Turkey was murdering Kurds en mass during the 80's and 90's and ethnically cleansing Eastern Turkey.

Turkey is such a backwards country politically that there is no chance of them joining the EU.
Original post by jneill
Except, they aren't coming.


I hope not. However, how much trust do you put in a politician who says they aren't coming when that politician has previously:

Said I still want Turkey to join EU, despite migrant fears

Claimed to be a fervent supporter of Turkish entry.

Has recently agreed to allowing Turkey onto the next (accelerated, according to the EU Commission) step of the road to membership.

Is claimed by Turkey to be its chief supporter.

And several times ducked stating he would veto Turkey's entry on QT.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11283924/David-Cameron-I-still-want-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/camerons-support-for-turkeys-eu-membership-should-worry-us-all/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1309908/david-cameron-refuses-four-times-to-say-if-he-would-veto-turkeys-eu-membership/

http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/world/19571-turkish-government-exposes-david-camerons-spin-turkey.html

http://order-order.com/2016/06/07/cameron-wants-serbia-turkey-to-join-eu/

http://www.ukapologetics.net/10/christianhawk57.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/turkeys-chief-presidential-adviser-david-cameron-was-our-chief-s/

It is not a red herring; it is entirely relevant to both immigration and sovereignty issues.
Original post by jneill
Except, they aren't coming.


Original post by Bornblue
It's an irrelevance. They aren't joining.


Your repeated statements are reassuring. But you haven't yet briefed Mr Cameron, who appears to have strayed off message.
Original post by Good bloke
Your repeated statements are reassuring. But you haven't yet briefed Mr Cameron, who appears to have strayed off message.


Yeah because saying 'they are not joining any time soon' and 'they are not joining until year 3000 at this rate is straying off message.

Just stop scaremongering. Please.
Original post by Bornblue
Yeah because saying 'they are not joining any time soon' and 'they are not joining until year 3000 at this rate is straying off message.


But saying those things while simultaneously agreeing an accelerated route forward for accession and leading the Turks to believe you are their biggest advocate leads one to a different conclusion.
Original post by Good bloke
But saying those things while simultaneously agreeing an accelerated route forward for accession and leading the Turks to believe you are their biggest advocate leads one to a different conclusion.


Nop.
They cannot join before they have completed 35 criteria. They have done one.
They cannot join unless every country, not just us, accepts them. That will not happen.
They cannot join for decades, possibly centuries.
Stop scaremongering. Stop fearmongering.
You lot are the real project fear.
Original post by physicsphysics91
Deserters shall walk the plank when we leave the EU.


Sense of irony considering the leavers are deserting the EU.
Original post by Good bloke
I hope not. How.............ologetics.net/10/christianhawk57.htm


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/turkeys-chief-presidential-adviser-david-cameron-was-our-chief-s/

It is not a red herring; it is entirely relevant to both immigration and sovereignty issues.

Well, it isn't relevant because they are not joining.

They have only completed 1 chapter out of 33 chapters for joining the EU in the last 10 years which was for Science and Research. 2 Chapters are completely incompatible with the Turkish System. For even more chapters, the Turkish system is described as very hard to adapt.

Even if they magically change their political system and complete all 35 chapters in the next 6 months, then they would need approval of ALL member states and the most powerful member state has said no.

Ian Duncan Smith is a liar to say it will happen soon. It won't happen by 2020.

Cameron is parroting the US position which has been supporting the Turkish Accession since 91. He cannot magically make them fulfil the 35 chapter requirement.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Bornblue
.
You lot are the real project fear.


hehe Be careful. If you say that often enough someone might believe you.

The remain camp have claimed that leaving the EU will lead to inflation, recession, financial shock akin to the banking crash, war, even (from Mr Tusk) the end of western civilisation. That is Project Fear.

Yet we wouldn't even be deciding if Cameron had not asked us to do so. If things could be that bad, surely no PM would contemplate giving the public a chance to cock things up?

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/project-fear-turn-11-brexit-spell-end-western-civilisation-says-donald-tusk/
Original post by Good bloke
hehe Be careful. If you say that often enough someone might believe you.

The remain camp have claimed that leaving the EU will lead to inflation, recession, financial shock akin to the banking crash, war, even (from Mr Tusk) the end of western civilisation. That is Project Fear.

Yet we wouldn't even be deciding if Cameron had not asked us to do so. If things could be that bad, surely no PM would contemplate giving the public a chance to cock things up?

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/project-fear-turn-11-brexit-spell-end-western-civilisation-says-donald-tusk/


Cameron ? Yes.

This was the same moron that gave Scotland the chance to vote for independence. If they had got it they would have been staring into an abyss with the collapse of the oil price.

Inflation isn't a scare tactic. That is a reasonable assumption with the significant devaluation of the pound.
Original post by DorianGrayism

Inflation isn't a scare tactic. That is a reasonable assumption with the significant devaluation of the pound.


Inflation in 1975 was running off the clock at 24% (salaries were even index-linked on a monthly basis) and the pound was worth $2.22. In 2016 we have zero inflation and a pound worth $1.48.
Original post by Bornblue
The lure of the EU has democratized numerous countries.


Which countries are these? The ones that were behind the iron curtain and then were democratised when the USSR collapsed?

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Original post by Good bloke
Inflation in 1975 was running off the clock at 24% (salaries were even index-linked on a monthly basis) and the pound was worth $2.22. In 2016 we have zero inflation and a pound worth $1.48.


What exactly is your point? Has anyone here predicted a return to inflation of 24%?

All I said was that there would an increase in Inflation which is something that would happen as imports become more expensive.
Britain leaves the EU - A primate-drawn shape distances itself from other primate-drawn shapes.

Britain stays in the EU - A primate drawn shape doesn't distance itself from other primate drawn-shapes.

In other words - nobody cares.
Original post by DorianGrayism
What exactly is your point? Has anyone here predicted a return to inflation of 24%?

All I said was that there would an increase in Inflation which is something that would happen as imports become more expensive.


My point is that a lower pound and higher inflation do not necessarily go together as you imply. In any case, the imports would dry up as armageddon hit us and recession took its toll on Britain, according to remain orthodoxy.
Original post by Good bloke
hehe Be careful. If you say that often enough someone might believe you.

The remain camp have claimed that leaving the EU will lead to inflation, recession, financial shock akin to the banking crash, war, even (from Mr Tusk) the end of western civilisation. That is Project Fear.

Yet we wouldn't even be deciding if Cameron had not asked us to do so. If things could be that bad, surely no PM would contemplate giving the public a chance to cock things up?

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/project-fear-turn-11-brexit-spell-end-western-civilisation-says-donald-tusk/


Pointing out very real risks to an inherently risky decision is not scaremongering - it's sensible. Almost every expert thinks we're economically better off and more secure in the EU.
The Leave campaign has not provided a single viable alternative or blueprint for a post-Brexit Britain. Not one.

Apparently according to you, pointing out very real risks and asking the other side how they would cope with them is scaremongering.
So it must be scaremongering when we're told not to drink and drive or to wear a seatbelt?
If a mechanic says your car is not in a fit condition to be driven that must also be scaremongering?


The leave campaign on the other hand have lied and scaremongered about Turkey, lied about EU legislation, lied about how much money it costs us.

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