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Baroness Warsi defects from Leave to Remain

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Original post by Bornblue

The Leave campaign has not provided a single viable alternative or blueprint for a post-Brexit Britain. Not one.


For the simple reason that the future depends on the post-referendum debate on what our strategy should be as well as what party is in power.

The remain camp is purporting to offer steady as she goes but this is obviously not true, hence the attempt to future damaging accessions and their effects on social and economic cohesion, just as Blair did before he changed the face of Britain's demographics by a cynical attempt to manipulate the composition of the electorate via mass migration.
Original post by Foo.mp3
Pre-rebate, gross, average, weekly dues are £350 million. It is disingenuous to present this as an amount that goes to the EU, however, plainly it does not. I personally prefer to go with £250 million per week gross, and £165 million per week net. Whichever figure you chose, it's a heck of a lot of money that we could do with controlling ourselves! #TakeControl

Short of EU collapse this is going to happen sooner or later. Perhaps not in the next year or so but we presently have absolutely no guarantees re: veto from Cameron, who ducked the opportunity on several occasions (shameful)

Over half of our laws originate in/are influenced by the EU now. If they've worded this inaccurately then that's a shame/possibly disingenuous but again, this is, in essence, a fact

I have just dealt with your charges, so unless you have any others I suggest you retract this baseless prejudicial defamation :yy:

Saying things that are technically true in an intentionally misleading manner counts as lying.

You do realise it would cost us almost as much to join the single market?
You didn't rebut the turkey lie. Even Boris johnson said there is no chance of them joining. Sooner or later? Not for decades, perhaps centuries.

Can you possibly give me a vision of post Brexit Britain? Which trade deals would we sign?
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 82
Original post by Foo.mp3
Pre-rebate, gross, average, weekly dues are £350 million. It is disingenuous to present this as an amount that goes to the EU, however, plainly it does not. I personally prefer to go with £250 million per week gross, and £165 million per week net. Whichever figure you chose, it's a heck of a lot of money that we could do with controlling ourselves! #TakeControl

Short of EU collapse this is going to happen sooner or later. Perhaps not in the next year or so but we presently have absolutely no guarantees re: veto from Cameron, who ducked the opportunity on several occasions (shameful)

Over half of our laws originate in/are influenced by the EU now. If they've worded this inaccurately then that's a shame/possibly disingenuous but again, this is, in essence, a fact

I have just dealt with your charges, so unless you have any others I suggest you retract this baseless prejudicial defamation :yy:


So take the disingenuous £350m off the bus.

Turkey, later much later, if ever. Definitely not sooner.

The vast majority of those laws which we supported anyway.

And if we weren't in EU but signed up to a trade agreement many of which we'd have to adopt anyway. With no say on them. At all.

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Original post by Bornblue
Saying things that are technically true in an intentionally misleading manner counts as lying.

You didn't rebut the turkey lie. Even Boris johnson said there is no chance of them joining. Sooner or later? Not for decades, perhaps centuries.


I do love it when you change definitions, do you know what a lie is? It's this: an intentionally false statement.

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Reply 84
Original post by Foo.mp3
Fair point, albeit that not all that many wash completely with the bulk of the electorate e.g. especially the more pinickety/red tapey ones that do hinder/curtail SME’s (hence 2/3 of SME business leaders are for #Brexit)


Source?

The Federation of Small Businesses surveyed their members: 47% Remain, 41% Leave, 11% undecided.

If anything I'd expect adding Medium-sized businesses to that poll would increase the Remain result.
Original post by Good bloke
My point is that a lower pound and higher inflation do not necessarily go together as you imply. In any case, the imports would dry up as armageddon hit us and recession took its toll on Britain, according to remain orthodoxy.


That isn't my argument in this case either. Inflation isn't always caused by a lower pound.

I have no clue about the state of either economy in 1975, so picking random data points is a bit daft.

My argument is that in this situation there should be an increase in inflation. That is also the expectation of major banks as well.
(edited 7 years ago)
Amazing how hypocritical posters such as Good bloke, who were vehemently against Scottish independence are now arguing for Brexit. Couldn't make it up lol
Original post by IamJacksContempt
Amazing how hypocritical posters such as Good bloke, who were vehemently against Scottish independence are now arguing for Brexit. Couldn't make it up lol


Perhaps you could explain how supporting one and not the other is hypocritical.

It seems logical, to me, that the British nation state should be both united and independent.
Original post by Good bloke
Perhaps you could explain how supporting one and not the other is hypocritical.

It seems logical, to me, that the British nation state should be both united and independent.


The arguments for Britain leaving the EU parallel that of the Scottish independence campaign. The pursuit of "greater democracy" despite the economic drawbacks which, funnily enough you describe as "scaremongering". Hmmm wonder where I've heard that before.
Original post by IamJacksContempt
The arguments for Britain leaving the EU parallel that of the Scottish independence campaign. The pursuit of "greater democracy" despite the economic drawbacks which, funnily enough you describe as "scaremongering". Hmmm wonder where I've heard that before.


The remain campaign rely on short termism, reconciling fearmongering reports on the economy, with even optimistic recovery assumptions, always leads to stronger log term growth with brexit, the most extreme pairings leading to nearly 1% p/a stronger growth.

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Original post by IamJacksContempt
The arguments for Britain leaving the EU parallel that of the Scottish independence campaign. The pursuit of "greater democracy" despite the economic drawbacks which, funnily enough you describe as "scaremongering". Hmmm wonder where I've heard that before.


Except that the EU does not represent the bulk of the UK's foreign trade and the proportion is falling, and there are no currency issues in leaving whereas trade with the rest of the UK is, by a huge margin, is the bulk of Scotland's trade and there was no viable strategy for which currency to use without losing a measure of sovereignty.

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