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If capital punishment isn't worth one innocent person being executed....

Then how do you explain all of the people who have been murdered and raped by recidivists who were released from jail by a parole board?

Are they "worth" the current system we have?

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Original post by Anthony Ludovici
Then how do you explain all of the people who have been murdered and raped by recidivists who were released from jail by a parole board?

Are they "worth" the current system we have?


Why have you included rapists here, very few rapists get a life sentence, very few murderers get a whole life tariff, so eventually they will be released after 'doing their time' and no need for a parole board. Also most murderers and rapists are not recidivists.
It just means we have to do more. Capital punishment isn't the answer.
Original post by !!mentor!!
It just means we have to do more. Capital punishment isn't the answer.


Do more what?

People are dying and being raped because of policies you support. When this country abandoned capital punishment the quid pro quo to the right was that anyone who would have received a death sentence would, ex post facto, never be released from jail.

This clearly hasn't happened. At all.
Original post by Anthony Ludovici
Do more what?

People are dying and being raped because of policies you support. When this country abandoned capital punishment the quid pro quo to the right was that anyone who would have received a death sentence would, ex post facto, never be released from jail.

This clearly hasn't happened. At all.


No country in the world which has the death penalty have a lower recidivism rate because of it. Don't throw a strop just because the majority (and enlightened) of the country don't support your blood lust.
Norway has a maximum penalty, for any offence, of 21 years imprisonment and they have one of the lowest recidivism rates n the world.
We should probably take a look at their system as see what we could learn.
Original post by !!mentor!!
No country in the world which has the death penalty have a lower recidivism rate because of it. Don't throw a strop just because the majority (and enlightened) of the country don't support your blood lust.
Norway has a maximum penalty, for any offence, of 21 years imprisonment and they have one of the lowest recidivism rates n the world.
We should probably take a look at their system as see what we could learn.


Erm, what? The recidivism rate of dead criminals is precisely 0. That's the point.

Norway has a maximum penalty, for any offence, of 21 years imprisonment and they have one of the lowest recidivism rates n the world.


Unlike you I've been to Oslo. While it may be safe by European standards it doesn't hold a candle to the sort of safety you experience in East Asian cities, most of which have vastly stricter criminal justice systems.

Why don't you look at Singapore's system? Oh wait, that wouldn't flatter your ideological sympathies.
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Avatar for Dheorl
Dheorl
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Original post by Anthony Ludovici
Then how do you explain all of the people who have been murdered and raped by recidivists who were released from jail by a parole board?

Are they "worth" the current system we have?


Why waste a human life?

So you don't want them to ever be in society again? Why kill them? Why not put them to work for the rest of their lives?

I'm not saying that either system is right, I'm just curious as to why you see death as the better of the two options.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by !!mentor!!
No country in the world which has the death penalty have a lower recidivism rate because of it. Don't throw a strop just because the majority (and enlightened) of the country don't support your blood lust.
Norway has a maximum penalty, for any offence, of 21 years imprisonment and they have one of the lowest recidivism rates n the world.
We should probably take a look at their system as see what we could learn.


Their prisons aren't even prisons in my eyes. Even Mr Breivik is living under ridiculously good circumstances. Wouldn't be surprised if he's got a PS4 lol
Original post by Anthony Ludovici
Erm, what? The recidivism rate of dead criminals is precisely 0. That's the point.



Unlike you I've been to Oslo. While it may be safe by European standards it doesn't hold a candle to the sort of safety you experience in East Asian cities, most of which have vastly stricter criminal justice systems.

Why don't you look at Singapore's system? Oh wait, that wouldn't flatter your ideological sympathies.


No the point is that despite countries having long prison sentences for rape and the death penalty, people still commit these crimes to a high degree. The fact they have harsh sentences doesn't stop them.

And you obviously aren't aware but there are more cities in Norway than Oslo. The last time I went there anyway.

Despite what we may feel about Norway's sentencing, there is no doubt that their system is one of the best in the world (not just in Europe).

Of course you are allowed your opinion on this matter, it's just that I and the rest of the enlightened people (most of whom are in positions of power and authority in this country) will continue to ignore such ill-though out opinions.
Original post by cbreef
Their prisons aren't even prisons in my eyes. Even Mr Breivik is living under ridiculously good circumstances. Wouldn't be surprised if he's got a PS4 lol


But it doesn't matter how you feel about their prisons. Their system obviously works for them.
Original post by Anthony Ludovici
Then how do you explain all of the people who have been murdered and raped by recidivists who were released from jail by a parole board?

Are they "worth" the current system we have?


Saying capital punishment shouldn't be introduced isn't the same thing as saying the current system is perfect


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Original post by cbreef
Their prisons aren't even prisons in my eyes. Even Mr Breivik is living under ridiculously good circumstances. Wouldn't be surprised if he's got a PS4 lol


You criticise their prisons yet they have a lower crime, incarceration and reoffending rate than most countries in the world


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Original post by Underscore__
You criticise their prisons yet they have a lower crime, incarceration and reoffending rate than most countries in the world


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I'm sorry, when did I criticise them? I don't remember doing that mate... :u:
I merely commented on the standards in their prisons being exceptional. They actually have a "prison" on an island, with no walls whatsoever and hammocks! I hear Norwegian summers are pretty decent too!
If anything, I was complimenting their "prisons".
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by cbreef
I'm sorry, when did I criticise them? I don't remember doing that mate... :u:
I merely commented on the standards in their prisons being exceptional. They actually have a "prison" on an island, with no walls whatsoever and hammocks! I hear Norwegian summers are pretty decent too!
If anything, I was complimenting their "prisons".


The phrasing of your post came across as being sarcastically complimentary. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say you're now backtracking because somebody has told you their prisons are actually effective


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Original post by Underscore__
The phrasing of your post came across as being sarcastically complimentary. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say you're now backtracking because somebody has told you their prisons are actually effective


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You don't have a clue mate. I've been very complimentary of the Norwegian/Scandinavian system in the past. Not just their prisons
Original post by cbreef
You don't have a clue mate. I've been very complimentary of the Norwegian/Scandinavian system in the past. Not just their prisons


I'll take your word for it mate. All I'm saying is it didn't come across that way and it seems other people viewed what you said as criticism as well


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Original post by Underscore__
I'll take your word for it mate. All I'm saying is it didn't come across that way and it seems other people viewed what you said as criticism as well


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Please! Feel free to dig out some old posts by me relating to Scandinavia. See for yourself
Original post by Underscore__
Saying capital punishment shouldn't be introduced isn't the same thing as saying the current system is perfect


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Well how would you change it exactly?
Original post by !!mentor!!
No the point is that despite countries having long prison sentences for rape and the death penalty, people still commit these crimes to a high degree. The fact they have harsh sentences doesn't stop them.


Define "a high degree". Among developing countries the PRC has one of the lowest crime rates. It makes India look like a third world hell hole by comparison (which it is, but that's besides the point). Singapore posts a significantly lower homicide rate than Norway. Likewise with most other developed East Asian states. So I don't think Norway can truly be put up there with the top-tier of low-crime polities. It still has its Muslim ghettoes and corresponding low-level criminality, murders, rapes (tied to immigration) etc.

it's just that I and the rest of the enlightened people (most of whom are in positions of power and authority in this country) will continue to ignore such ill-though out opinions.


I already know that opposing to the death penalty is about virtue-signalling and pathological altruism, so you didn't need to tell me that.
Original post by Dheorl
Why waste a human life?

So you don't want them to ever be in society again? Why kill them? Why not put them to work for the rest of their lives?

I'm not saying that either system is right, I'm just curious as to why you see death as the better of the two options.


We can't put them to work for the rest of their lives. Since the powers that be have established, in their infinite wisdom, that this would be far too cruel.

I don't believe human life has innate value, and if you're an atheist I challenge you to produce a material mechanism by which it does.

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