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Why is the IQ so low in Saudia Arabia (84)?

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Maybe because
most of them are sitting around feather-bedding on oil wells

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/sep/23/james-flynn-iq-scores-environment
Original post by minjinoor
funny, it's as if those great Muslim philosophers, mathematicians and scientists never existed...


Islamic mathematics was built on Greek and Indian mathematics. And there's a current theory that the creator of Algebra was a Zoroastrian, not a Muslim.
Original post by oShahpo
Venezuela has more oil than Saudi Arabia and a similar population, but it's much poorer, surely it isn't just down to oil.


You raise a very fair point, maybe corruption (yes you can get more corrupt than Saudi), weak political and economic foundations and I'd much rather have oil in the middle the desert than in a jungle :tongue:


For example, if you look at the the ease of doing business ranking by the world bank, Saudi Arabia ranks 82 but Venezuela ranks 186... So I don't know what your opinion of Saudi Arabia is, at least its not Venezuela :biggrin:
Its all about potential really. Venezuela's economy is a lot better than countries with similar corruption and business rankings - because of oil. Saudi Arabia would've been a lot worse off without oil, and Saudi Arabia could have been a lot of better off if it wasn't... Saudi Arabia :biggrin:

To answer OPs question, if that is true, then I would say Saudi's awful education system has a lot to do with it
(edited 7 years ago)
people spend their sh*t tonne of money on cars, women and leisure.
Original post by oShahpo

Also, IQ is not just a factor of nutrition and education, it also comes about when natural "maybe artificial?" selection within a society favours the intelligent.


LOOOL, what are you trying to say about gulf Arabs? :tongue:

Also, it's true that potential IQ is partially set by one's genetics, but it still has to be reached, and in that process the environmental effects also play a big factor.
Original post by penelopecrux
people spend their sh*t tonne of money on cars, women and leisure.


that's definitely the case for Dubai lol
Original post by chemting
LOOOL, what are you trying to say about gulf Arabs? :tongue:

Also, it's true that potential IQ is partially set by one's genetics, but it still has to be reached, and in that process the environmental effects also play a big factor.

I am not saying anything about them in particular, but rather negating the point that if a country has good nutrition and a good education system, it must be intelligent. I don't think so, I think intelligence is something that takes generations (but not too many) to develop through ideas of selection, not just feeding babies and sending them to good schools. Education and nutrition do indeed have an effect on intelligence, but not as much as genetics, which in itself is not a solid thing, but can and does change over time.

p.s. as you know I have never studied sociology or psychology, so feel free to dismiss my thoughts :tongue:
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Bill_Gates
that's definitely the case for Dubai lol


yeah and saudi, most of them are from royal families and they don't give a sh*t about education
Original post by Hydeman
I'm fairly sure Saudi Arabia has more female graduates than male ones. :hmmmm2:


I can't say I know anything about the Saudi education system, but would I be correct in assuming a lot of emphasis is placed on memorisation? Afterall, Islamic cultures tend to place a lot of emphasis on memorising the Quran, the names of Allah etc.. Could it be the case that Saudi Arabian culture places more emphasis on memorising instead abstract thinking or understanding? For example, many Muslims can recite the Quran, yet can't speak Arabic. Memorisation is favoured over understanding in this case.
Why do people in the west always think they are better than people in other countries
Original post by oShahpo
I am not saying anything about them in particular, but rather negating the point that if a country has good nutrition and a good education system, it must be intelligent. I don't think so, I think intelligence is something that takes generations (but not too many) to develop through ideas of selection, not just feeding babies and sending them to good schools. Education and nutrition do indeed have an effect on intelligence, but not as much as genetics, which in itself is not a solid thing, but can and does change over time.


Well, maybe. If there is a system (education or societal in general) in which, not the most intelligent succeed but the most pious, then over (however short or long) time, it has an affect... (I'm not saying being more pious decreases intelligent, there probably isn't even a relationship, but let's assume there is for argument's sake).

EDIT: What I mean by that could be summed by The Epicurean's post above.

However, the selection pressures that exist in modern environment is nowhere near what was thousands of years ago (in fact hundreds of thousands) where IQ was a factor, so who knows whether "natural selection" has that much of an effect. It could do though.

Good nutrition and education does help reach potential intelligence, theoretically, so it should have an affect, theoretically.

PS: "sending them to good schools" is subjective - that usually just means "schools whose grades are the highest", not necessarily "schools that increase intelligence the most". So I agree, its not just about that.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
Islamic mathematics was built on Greek and Indian mathematics. And there's a current theory that the creator of Algebra was a Zoroastrian, not a Muslim.


Original post by oShahpo
I am not saying anything about them in particular, but rather negating the point that if a country has good nutrition and a good education system, it must be intelligent. I don't think so, I think intelligence is something that takes generations (but not too many) to develop through ideas of selection, not just feeding babies and sending them to good schools. Education and nutrition do indeed have an effect on intelligence, but not as much as genetics, which in itself is not a solid thing, but can and does change over time.

p.s. as you know I have never studied sociology or psychology, so feel free to dismiss my thoughts :tongue:


Original post by The Epicurean
I can't say I know anything about the Saudi education system, but would I be correct in assuming a lot of emphasis is placed on memorisation? Afterall, Islamic cultures tend to place a lot of emphasis on memorising the Quran, the names of Allah etc.. Could it be the case that Saudi Arabian culture places more emphasis on memorising instead abstract thinking or understanding? For example, many Muslims can recite the Quran, yet can't speak Arabic. Memorisation is favoured over understanding in this case.


Why do people in the west always think they are better than people in other countries
Original post by Teleport1
Why do people in the west always think they are better than people in other countries


Idk maybe because we're actually encouraged to think for ourselves?
Original post by Teleport1
Why do people in the west always think they are better than people in other countries


Please point to where I have claimed that people in the west are better than other people?
Original post by oShahpo

p.s. as you know I have never studied sociology or psychology, so feel free to dismiss my thoughts :tongue:


Sorry missed this edit: Me neither :tongue: so its a possibility that we could both be b-llsh-tting here
Original post by Teleport1
Why do people in the west always think they are better than people in other countries


Where have the users that you have quoted mentioned that people in the west are better than people in other countries
Original post by The Epicurean
I can't say I know anything about the Saudi education system, but would I be correct in assuming a lot of emphasis is placed on memorisation? Afterall, Islamic cultures tend to place a lot of emphasis on memorising the Quran, the names of Allah etc.. Could it be the case that Saudi Arabian culture places more emphasis on memorising instead abstract thinking or understanding? For example, many Muslims can recite the Quran, yet can't speak Arabic. Memorisation is favoured over understanding in this case.


Oh, definitely. At least in the earlier grades (I was there from kindergarten to grade 8; it goes up to 12), the system was entirely based on rote learning - there was one social studies teacher who was alright with students putting answers in their own words, but every other teacher gave us notes and expected them to be regurgitated word for word in the exam.

Though I think the system is different once you got to A Levels. I kept in touch with one of my friends for quite a few years afterward and he told me that the situation improved greatly in the later grades (better teachers, for one). I also know for a fact that they did CIE A Levels (which are quite a bit harder than the A Levels we do here), so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that at higher levels, it's not too different to what you'd expect in the UK.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by chemting
Where have the users that you have quoted mentioned that people in the west are better than people in other countries


People are always trying to dissect other countries faults and in their minds people are always superior in the west.
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
Idk maybe because we're actually encouraged to think for ourselves?


So you do think people in the west are better than other people
There may be money, *doesn't automatically mean they'll be smart. They only have money because of their oil. *Without it, they'd just be nothing more than a country of savages. The answer is obvious though, their religion.

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