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Petition calling for 2nd Referendum - and write to your MP

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Original post by jneill
It's 5x larger than any previous petition.

It's nearly 4x the population of Birmingham and it's more than the population of Wales.

By any assessment it's quite a significant event. Especially given the problems people had in the early days actually accessing the petition to sign it.

Very small = something other than this...


You have to be living in a dream world if you think the government will overturn a referendum, because that's not a democracy, that would be a dictatorship in disguise as a democracy...

Where is the line drawn? "As the ruling party, we don't like that the opposition won, so let's redo the general election".

The petition is entirely pathetic and shows how millennials are unable to accept opinions that contrast their own.
Reply 781
Original post by geoking
You have to be living in a dream world if you think the government will overturn a referendum, because that's not a democracy, that would be a dictatorship in disguise as a democracy...

Where is the line drawn? "As the ruling party, we don't like that the opposition won, so let's redo the general election".

The petition is entirely pathetic and shows how millennials are unable to accept opinions that contrast their own.


How do you know it's only millennials signing the petition?

And funny you should view "overturning" a referendum as "not a democracy, that would be a dictatorship in disguise as a democracy..."

Who said this? the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues

Spoiler

(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 782
Original post by jneill
37.4% of the electorate said "yeah lets leave we don't need no EU", and some of them are having second thoughts.

PS. This petition is 5x larger than any previous petition.

It's nearly 4x the population of Birmingham and it's more than the population of Wales.

By any assessment it's quite a significant event. Especially given the problems people had in the early days actually accessing the petition to sign it.

Very small = something other than this...

Still in my opinion 4 million is nowhere near large enough to even consider a second referendum. It isn't very democratic to host a second referndum just because people have suddenly decided to change their minds. It isn't fair on the people who did vote to leave which may now have done it all for nothing.
Reply 783
Original post by Crb822
Still in my opinion 4 million is nowhere near large enough to even consider a second referendum. It isn't very democratic to host a second referndum just because people have suddenly decided to change their minds. It isn't fair on the people who did vote to leave which may now have done it all for nothing.


It's not so much that people have changed their minds, although many have.

It's because it's so close (only just over a third of the electorate actually voted in support of it), and it was decided with frankly a dearth of necessary information on both sides but particularly on the Leave side.

Have a read of this (it's quite long but that, as you will read, is the point...):

https://medium.com/@kirstymhall/brexit-was-a-con-67532113a7c
Original post by jneill
It's not so much that people have changed their minds, although many have.

It's because it's so close (only just over a third of the electorate actually voted in support of it), and it was decided with frankly a dearth of necessary information on both sides but particularly on the Leave side.

Have a read of this (it's quite long but that, as you will read, is the point...):

https://medium.com/@kirstymhall/brexit-was-a-con-67532113a7c


Do you see yourself still pushing for a second referendum in a years time?
Reply 785
Original post by physicsphysics91
Do you see yourself still pushing for a second referendum in a years time?


There won't be a 2nd Referendum any time soon, but I do think a 2nd Referendum (or GE) is a likely outcome at the end of the Article 50 negotiations.
I'm telling you, it's an outrage. I can't believe their hypocrisy and self-satisfaction.The logical conclusion to their view is endless referenda. You simply cannot invent some phoney criteria about percentage victory after the result. Otherwise leave could do that again. And what makes them think they would get a victory by that percentage? They would hope, clearly, to have it fixed, ot pump out even more overbearing, fake insults about racism and propaganda. This is why we have a mainstream media pushing the racist country thing right now, as if there was no racism before, it's propaganda for an overturn. I don't give a damn how morally superior remain think they are, they are the pits. They won't pull together, take opportunistic, sickeningly righteous positions, and scariest of all they have shown themselves utterly contemptuous of democracy. No surprise they love an anti-democratic institution. They all seem to think the same, their self-satisfaction and sense of moral and intellectual superiority is insufferable, and their position is nothing more than opportunism. They were smug and cocksure and got punished. Now they remain self-satisfied as to why anyone would vote against global establishment. The little people just don't understand whats best for them, so we'll do away with representative democracy, and have luvvies and the privileged decide whats best for everyone in an autocracy.

This is from the 'Tao Te Ching', ancient Chinese spiritual text.

High Virtue is non-virtuous;

Therefore it has Virtue.

Low Virtue never frees itself from virtuousness;

Therefore it has no Virtue.

High Virtue makes no fuss and has no private ends to serve:

Low Virtue not only fusses but has private ends to serve.

High humanity fusses but has no private ends to serve:

High morality not only fusses but has private ends to serve.

Hi ceremony fusses but finds no response;

Then it tries to enforce itself with rolled-up sleeves.

Failing Tao, man resorts to Virtue.

Failing Virtue, man resorts to humanity.

Failing humanity, man resorts to morality.

Failing morality, man resorts to ceremony.


Sounds like too many remainers.
Original post by jneill
How do you know it's only millennials signing the petition?

And funny you should view "overturning" a referendum as "not a democracy, that would be a dictatorship in disguise as a democracy..."

Who said this? the referendum was a device of dictators and demagogues

Spoiler



If you have a look at the photos of those who are currently protesting against democracy in London, as well as those who predominantly voted to remain, it's millennials.

Who cares what arbitrary comment Thatcher made? A question was posed to the voting public, who came out and the majority said; "leave". I think it's time for people to grow up and accept the outcome of a fairly held vote.

If you want it to be overturned, then you clearly would be better off finding a dictatorship or other form of government to live in, because if you can't accept the result of a democratic vote, a democracy is not for you.
I’ve made a petition will you sign it?

Click this link to sign the petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/155296/sponsors/A3PtRUGlRFWP3R1ruWQR





My petition:

EU Membership for Individuals Permit free travel/study/work £4:50 week

People are accustomed to travelling to the mainland, without applying for a visa or a permit to work or study. Individual EU membership will allow those who choose to individual EU membership to remain connected and involved with their EU counterparts, without additional fees or permits
Original post by geoking
If you have a look at the photos of those who are currently protesting against democracy in London, as well as those who predominantly voted to remain, it's millennials.

Who cares what arbitrary comment Thatcher made? A question was posed to the voting public, who came out and the majority said; "leave". I think it's time for people to grow up and accept the outcome of a fairly held vote.

If you want it to be overturned, then you clearly would be better off finding a dictatorship or other form of government to live in, because if you can't accept the result of a democratic vote, a democracy is not for you.


The advisory referendum has to go before parliament fir assent, and must thought to benefit the country.
Reply 790
Original post by geoking
If you have a look at the photos of those who are currently protesting against democracy in London, as well as those who predominantly voted to remain, it's millennials.

Who cares what arbitrary comment Thatcher made? A question was posed to the voting public, who came out and the majority said; "leave". I think it's time for people to grow up and accept the outcome of a fairly held vote.

If you want it to be overturned, then you clearly would be better off finding a dictatorship or other form of government to live in, because if you can't accept the result of a democratic vote, a democracy is not for you.


You don't care about what two previous Prime Ministers think of referendums? Attlee and Thatcher. One Labour, one Tory. One who was at the heart of the creation of the welfare state post WW2, and one who was Britain's longest serving PM in the 20th Century.

And millenials didn't primarily declare they wanted to remain; most of them didn't bother to vote at all. As I'm not a millennial myself that IS something that annoys me.

And, to be clear, I don't want a (non-binding) referendum overturned. I want it to be reconsidered. That's quite different. And is exactly what democracy is all about.

Edit: not many 18-34s in this photo.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by jneill
You don't care about what two previous Prime Ministers think of referendums? Attlee and Thatcher. One Labour, one Tory. One who was at the heart of the creation of the welfare state post WW2, and one who was Britain's longest serving PM in the 20th Century.

And millenials didn't primarily declare they wanted to remain; most of them didn't bother to vote at all. As I'm not a millennial myself that IS something that annoys me.

And, to be clear, I don't want a (non-binding) referendum overturned. I want it to be reconsidered. That's quite different. And is exactly what democracy is all about.

Edit: not many 18-34s in this photo.


The Brexit demo is superb! :colondollar:

Most people here want Parliament to think again and a second referendum at a later stage when a proper arrangement to stay has been worked out with the EU.
To be fair, all referendums are neverendums now. :teehee:
Reply 793
What were the % for : against in those 2 previous national referendums?

Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 794
Yep. Not close... more than 2/3rds one way or the other.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Two were post legislation. This is pre. Ireland has them all the time and ignores them.
Reply 796
See my earlier post about why we rarely have them at all (Attlee, Thatcher). And the frequent reminders about Ireland (and others) having multiple ones.

And also, if we have learned anything from this week, it's "never" doesn't necessarily mean "never". (DC would never resign....)

Posted from TSR Mobile
We just had a referendum, it is not been approved by gov. No second one is required.
Original post by jneill
See my earlier post about why we rarely have them at all (Attlee, Thatcher). And the frequent reminders about Ireland (and others) having multiple ones.

And also, if we have learned anything from this week, it's "never" doesn't necessarily mean "never". (DC would never resign....)

Posted from TSR Mobile


YouGov has said most people dont want a referendum. Whats your answer to that
There will be no second referendum. The first has not yet been approved by gov.

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