The Student Room Group

POLL: What is your view of Jaysh Al Fatah (a terrorist group in Syria)?

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Original post by Tawheed
I don't curse , and i have spoken out against those who insult and hurl abuse. It is against my madhab. I take the views of .ay fadlullah, ay.khamanei and ay. sistani.

Denounce Ay . Khamanei for taking the same view as me, that the greater evil in this conflict are Daesh, Al Nusra (alqaed affiliate), Ahrar Asham (founded by al suri, who worked with alqaeda, osama bin laden, and had close ties with alqaeda so much so the leader posted a eulogy when he died), and the takfiri groups, promoted by gulf states, and western governments to destabalize syria for their own selfish geopolitical goals, and not in the interests of the syrian people?

I want the syrian people to decide who they want in power, their government, in democratic , free and fair elections, where they choose, under international observation.

You are never going to get that with these groups here. The moment Assad falls, these groups will take the helm, and i consider Assad an evil, but the prospect of alqaeda as well as their associates taking charge an even greater evil.

It is forbidden to abuse the shaikhan, or hurl insults at them/ abuse. I have never done the above nor have you ever seen me do it.



No. You denounce him for the low life murderer he is. Denounce him as the butcher of the Syrian people. Denounce him as the killer of sunnis, etc etc...

Then answer my question in that thread about mercy. Heres the link http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4178104&page=3&p=66185535#post66185535. :smile:
Original post by Tawheed


I want the syrian people to decide who they want in power, their government, in democratic , free and fair elections, where they choose, under international observation.



As opposed to what Allah has revealed ?
Reply 82
Original post by AlifunArnab
As opposed to what Allah has revealed ?


I can assure you, Takfiri - groups who do not represent the syrian people, who are either alqaeda affiliates, have praised 'sheikh osama bin laden', or have had close ties with and to Alqaeda, and who are the proxies of gulf-states who fund them for their own geopolitical goals are not what Allah (azwj) has revealed.

Additionally, let this serve as a reminder to everyone on TSR that, with due respect Alifanularab, you've been rather polite, but you are not interested in any kind of democracy in Syria, and you have admitted neither are these groups, nor of the true will of the syrian people.

I have been saying this all along. We have had users here who have praised Ahrar Asham. Users who have asked Allah to bestow his mercy on Zahran Alloush [previous page] who himself asked Allah to bestow his mercy on 'sheikh osama binladen', and regarded jabhal al nusra as his 'brothers' - al nusra being the official alqaeda affiliate in syria.

It has become clear to me that many in syria recognise that however evil Assad may be, his fall will undoubtedly give rise to a secterian, alqaeda-linked, takfiri-type government, who have absolutely no interest in democracy.

Let's not forget what 'Allah revealed' (allegedly, because i absolutely dispute such a claim), led to Muawiyah being in power, and picking his son Yazid, the killer of the blood of ale Muhammed s.a.w

As you can see, his post has received three likes. Let us not speculate on who those users may be.
(edited 7 years ago)
they can come up with all these fancy names if they want but to me It's just another terrorist group that needs to be stopped.
Original post by Tawheed


As you can see, his post has received three likes. Let us not speculate on who those users may be.


But you do want people to speculate, that's why you're putting this out there.

I repped his post. I would rather a Muslim country be ruled by what Allah revealed to us. So what? Are Muslims meant to be ashamed of Allah's laws now?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Tawheed
I think you're missing a big point here though brother Ideas. The groups i am demonising are the official Alqaeda Affiliate, Jabhat Al Nusra. The Alqaeda -member founded group, Ahrar Asham. Groups among the seven which work closely with Alqaeda, or harbour hardline, millitant ideologies.


You claim to oppose Al-Qaeda and ISIS and yet you complain when the West takes military action against them. It's entirely clear that your worldview is based around worshipping the Iranian clerical despotism, justifying the actions of Iranian client states and terrorist proxies, and then placing 100% blame for the Middle East's situation on the United States and its client states.

The stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming. You don't really care about what ISIS is doing to the Sunni of Syria, you only care about how their existence can be used politically to bash Sunni regimes
The fight for Syria is not a fight for democracy anyway - it's just the fight to overthrow a dictator and restore a bit of freedom and peace into the lives of the people.

Again demonising with labels and focusing solely on rhetoric denies people the right to make informed decisions on these groups based on how they operate.

If we were to focus on actions as opposed to the other two things, we would have a different perception of the groups in the conflict e.g. various groups would actually be realised as co-operative, effective at fighting, stable, not really oppressive, mostly wise in how they deal with the people they liberate, although there are isolated incidents where they did bad; these groups actions run counter to being the crazy takfiri Al-Queda madmen that they are portrayed as. On the other hand, militia in Iraq are notorious for reprisal attacks on Sunni civilians, looting, torturing civilians etc; these groups are portrayed by Iraq and Iran as being the good guys who have come to help liberate Iraq. As can thus be seen in these two cases that labels and rhetoric mean little if their actions run counter to them.
Reply 87
I will be gone for 3-4 days, and inshAllah when i return, we can continue this discussion.

I thank Zamestaneh for both his posts, for good manners shown, and for directly addressing the issue at hand, and i will be addressing them first. Also some thanks is for Alifanularab, purely for being well mannered, and somewhat honest about his real intentions and motives in Syria and for Syria.

Eitherway, inshAllah, i look forward to addressing the posts.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Tawheed
Users who have asked Allah to bestow his mercy on Zahran Alloush [previous page]


Why not just use @Zamestaneh 's name? These indirect attacks aren't helping your cause :tongue:

There is nothing wrong with what Zamestaneh did. In Islam, you can add the phrase "Allah have mercy on him" after any deceased Muslim's name regardless of how bad or good they have been
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 89
Original post by IdeasForLife
Why not just use @Zamestaneh 's name? These indirect attacks aren't helping your cause :tongue:

There is nothing wrong with what Zamestaneh did. In Islam, you can add the phrase "Allah have mercy on him" after any deceased Muslim's name regardless of how bad or good they have been


Salamunalaykum,

I'm back brothers, i thank you for your patience.

I just want to address this post before i move on to performing research and preparing my reply. If a user has said x, and i say a user has said x, without giving the name, it is not an indirect attack. Trying to cause enmity between me, and someone who has replied directly to my post, and what i feel is a decent [but ultimately inadequate attempt] at convincing me of his position isn't right.

I have made it clear, the idea of anyone using 'rh' in front of Zahran Alloush is something i am against.

To state this plainly is not an indirect attack, it is a direct disagreement, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The fact i did not use the name means more for what i care about not wanting to make it seem like i have anything personal with brother zamestaneh, but moreso the idea of someone who uses 'rh'.

Secondly, Yazid, a man who has been absolutely ripped to shreds by many respectable ahlus-sunnah scholars themselves, a tyrant, a wicked man the grandson of Abu Sufiyan, the hand-picked son of Muawiyah, is a man no sunni i have met here would ever add the words 'rh' infront of, yet no sunni i see are going to perform takfir either.

Ibn Fulaan is one example. He would never add 'rh' infront of Yazid. I have seen sunni imams and sheikhs rip Zakir Naik to shreds over this[ he used r.a i believe, or 'may Allah be pleased with him']

Adding 'rh' infront of a name, is honorary. It shows respect, that you respect that individual and so, after saying his name, add in the 'rh'. Ofcourse, you can pray for mercy for anyone, but it is widely and of common practise to use 'rh' for the ulema, the scholars, men of dignity and respect.

Are you willing to say, 'Osama bin Laden (rh)' ?

Rh means you ask Allah to bestow his mercy on him.

As Zahran Alloush did in his video, after stating he met Bin Laden.

Suffice to say, for any truthseeking individual, which i assume we all are, it is contrary to the principles of honesty to suggest 'rh' is widely used for anyone, from the dictator to the pure scholar, and not most commonly used for symbols of high respect, or ones you revere, or respect to a fair level.

"Rahimahullah (English: Allah have mercy upon him, Arabic: رحمه الله‎‎) is a phrase often used after mentioning the righteous Islamic personalities who came after the companions of Muhammad. The mention of a late teacher, scholar, leader, or even a dear relative who was known for his goodness can be followed by the praying of mercy upon him."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahimahullah
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Tawheed
JAYSH AL FATAH

Jaysh Al Fatah is one of the most powerful alliances in Syria. We all know that theres ISIS/Daesh, however, very little focus is given to some of these other takfiri groups. Jaysh Al Fatah formed on the 24th March 2015, is a combination of some of these vicious Takfiri groups. Takfirism is given to radical militants who like to call large bodies of other muslims as kaffirs, apostates, both outside their 'sect' and in their 'sect'. They are viciously militant, radicals in ideology, using sectarianism to brainwash even some moderate's into committing acts and crimes against humanity.




Let us examine Jaysh Al Fatah, an alliance of several of the most powerful non-daesh takfiri groups:

The alliance in question is mainly in the Idlib provence. The important thing to note is, many of these terrorist groups operate outside of the Idlib provence, but the fighters from this group in Idlib have decided to unite and fight together.

Founding groups of Jaysh Al Fatah:

"At its founding, Jaish al-Fatah contained seven members, three of them al-Nusra, Ahrar ash-Sham, and Jund al-Aqsa are directly connected to Al-Qaeda or have a similar ideology.

With Ahrar ash-Sham being the largest group,[11] al-Nusra and Ahrar ash-Sham together were reported to represent 90 percent of the troops.[12] Another prominent Islamist faction in the operations room was the Muslim Brotherhood of Syria-linked Sham Legion (Faylaq Al-Sham).

Jaish al-Fatah collaborated with more moderate Free Syrian Army factions such as Knights of Justice Brigade.[13]The coalition's initial success has been attributed to its strong coherence, with the name of individual factions being forbidden when the group conducts joint operations"

Let's have a breakdown of some of these groups, working closely together in Idlib:

Jabhat Al Nusra is the OFFICIAL Alqaeda affiliate in Syria.

Ahrar Asham once worked closely with ISIS, was founded by members of
Alqaeda, and routinely cooperates with Al Nusra, and is viciously sectarian.

Jund Al Aqsa:[Former member, left Originally founded as a subunit within alqaeda affiliate, jabhat al nusra. On the 23 October 2015, Jund al-Aqsa left the Army of Conquest because of its opposition to the other groups considering the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant an enemy.[17] On 17 February 2016, over 400 fighters and senior leaders of Jund al-Aqsa defected to al-Nusra Front.

Liwa Al Haq - Founding members largely islamist. Even if it has moderate elements, the fact it is working with the likes of Jabhat Al Nusra, and Ahrar Asham speaks volumes.

Jaysh Al Sunnah - Homs based group, links to FSA, works closely with alqaeda -member founded group, Ahrar Asham

Anjad Al Sham - Independent Idlib and Hama based rebel group, works closely with alqaeda affiliates al nusra and ahrar as part of the army of conquest - 'Jaysh Al Fatah'. Killed an unarmed syrian soldier, beheaded him, and posted it on facebook as well, using terms like 'nusayri'.

Imam Bukhari Jama't: Islamist Salafi groups, comprised mostly of Uzbeks, expressing loyalty to the Taliban. Group closely allied to official alqaeda affiliate al nusra, and alqaeda member-founded group ahrar asham.

Turkistan Islamic Party: formerly known as the East Turkestan Islamic Movement(ETIM), and other names,[a] is an Islamic terrorist and separatist organization founded by Uyghur militants in western China.


We are all monkeys with guns, all this crap about love peace and what is better for politicians is crap. While we divide each other on religious grounds this is what we get.
Dear OP, regarding the first option in the poll, can we see any proof of Saudi, Qatari or Turkish aid to these groups?
Reply 92
Original post by Thutmose-III
You claim to oppose Al-Qaeda and ISIS and yet you complain when the West takes military action against them.


It was the west and gulf countries who helped escalate the millitary conflict in syria, in a bid to overthrow the syrian government, for their geopoltiical goals, not for the good of the syrian people.

It is the west and gulf-states, and turkey, who continues to support groups founded by alqaeda member(s) and who maintain very, very close links , and fight under one banner with official Alqaeda groups.

Don't confuse Daesh, with the other alqaeda founded or cooperating groups the west and gulf states hypocritically supports.


It's entirely clear that your worldview is based around worshipping the Iranian clerical despotism, justifying the actions of Iranian client states and terrorist proxies, and then placing 100% blame for the Middle East's situation on the United States and its client states.


The united states has a big part to play in the chaos of the middle east, but not 100%. In a conflict so complex, there are many players.

My world view is based on what i hold or believe to be true. Nothing more, and nothing less.

The stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming. You don't really care about what ISIS is doing to the Sunni of Syria, you only care about how their existence can be used politically to bash Sunni regimes


Interestingly, you are saying this to someone who devoted an entire thread on TSR to explaining how ISIS are not truly sunni's and have distorted whatever madhab they claim to be? The one who, on threads where secular, non-muslims try to show the shia's as the tolerant types, and the sunni's are responsible for many of these terrorist acts, actually arguing that no, that is not true and one can not label them as true sunni's ?

As for mentioning ISIS, with due respect, it shows that you have not read my original post, but rather, have a grudge against me, based on your judgement of who i am or who i support, and an external grudge has led you to producing this post.

You also did the same on my Jeremy Corbyn thread.

To point out, my thread has next to nothing to do with Daesh/ISIS.

Daesh, the group who have probably made shia's as their number one target, consider them apostates, call them Rafidha's are now being used against a shia to accuse that shia of being secterian?

It's a shame. I don't think you want any muslim, shia or sunni, to really exist, nor the strength and unity of muslims. If any muslim buys into the secterian propaganda you are trying to promote here, simply because you happen to be on their side, does not recognise you are absolutely no friend of theirs either.
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 93
Original post by dozyrosie
We are all monkeys with guns, all this crap about love peace and what is better for politicians is crap. While we divide each other on religious grounds this is what we get.


Ali Ibn Abu Talib a.s - the cousin of The prophet Muhammed s.a.w and his closest companion (as per the shia school) - This was compiled from earlier letters and scripts found even earlier - the below can be authentically verified to be atleast 1100-200 years old

"Remember, Maalik, that amongst your subjects there are two kinds of people: those who have the same religion as you have; they are brothers to you, and those who have religions other than that of yours, they are human beings like you. Men of either category suffer from the same weaknesses and disabilities that human beings are inclined to, they commit sins, indulge in vices either intentionally or foolishly and unintentionally without realizing the enormity of their deeds. Let your mercy and compassion come to their rescue and help in the same way and to the same extent that you expect Allah to show mercy and forgiveness to you".
Letter 53 - To Malik Al Ashtor for Governance
Original post by Tawheed
Ali Ibn Abu Talib a.s - the cousin of The prophet Muhammed s.a.w and his closest companion (as per the shia school) - This was compiled from earlier letters and scripts found even earlier - the below can be authentically verified to be atleast 1100-200 years old

"Remember, Maalik, that amongst your subjects there are two kinds of people: those who have the same religion as you have; they are brothers to you, and those who have religions other than that of yours, they are human beings like you. Men of either category suffer from the same weaknesses and disabilities that human beings are inclined to, they commit sins, indulge in vices either intentionally or foolishly and unintentionally without realizing the enormity of their deeds. Let your mercy and compassion come to their rescue and help in the same way and to the same extent that you expect Allah to show mercy and forgiveness to you".
Letter 53 - To Malik Al Ashtor for Governance


Is religion really relevant when people are being murdered by looneys?
Original post by Tawheed
JAYSH AL FATAH

Jaysh Al Fatah is one of the most powerful alliances in Syria. We all know that theres ISIS/Daesh, however, very little focus is given to some of these other takfiri groups. Jaysh Al Fatah formed on the 24th March 2015, is a combination of some of these vicious Takfiri groups. Takfirism is given to radical militants who like to call large bodies of other muslims as kaffirs, apostates, both outside their 'sect' and in their 'sect'. They are viciously militant, radicals in ideology, using sectarianism to brainwash even some moderate's into committing acts and crimes against humanity.




Let us examine Jaysh Al Fatah, an alliance of several of the most powerful non-daesh takfiri groups:

The alliance in question is mainly in the Idlib provence. The important thing to note is, many of these terrorist groups operate outside of the Idlib provence, but the fighters from this group in Idlib have decided to unite and fight together.

Founding groups of Jaysh Al Fatah:

"At its founding, Jaish al-Fatah contained seven members, three of them al-Nusra, Ahrar ash-Sham, and Jund al-Aqsa are directly connected to Al-Qaeda or have a similar ideology.

With Ahrar ash-Sham being the largest group,[11] al-Nusra and Ahrar ash-Sham together were reported to represent 90 percent of the troops.[12] Another prominent Islamist faction in the operations room was the Muslim Brotherhood of Syria-linked Sham Legion (Faylaq Al-Sham).

Jaish al-Fatah collaborated with more moderate Free Syrian Army factions such as Knights of Justice Brigade.[13]The coalition's initial success has been attributed to its strong coherence, with the name of individual factions being forbidden when the group conducts joint operations"

Let's have a breakdown of some of these groups, working closely together in Idlib:

Jabhat Al Nusra is the OFFICIAL Alqaeda affiliate in Syria.

Ahrar Asham once worked closely with ISIS, was founded by members of
Alqaeda, and routinely cooperates with Al Nusra, and is viciously sectarian.

Jund Al Aqsa:[Former member, left Originally founded as a subunit within alqaeda affiliate, jabhat al nusra. On the 23 October 2015, Jund al-Aqsa left the Army of Conquest because of its opposition to the other groups considering the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant an enemy.[17] On 17 February 2016, over 400 fighters and senior leaders of Jund al-Aqsa defected to al-Nusra Front.

Liwa Al Haq - Founding members largely islamist. Even if it has moderate elements, the fact it is working with the likes of Jabhat Al Nusra, and Ahrar Asham speaks volumes.

Jaysh Al Sunnah - Homs based group, links to FSA, works closely with alqaeda -member founded group, Ahrar Asham

Anjad Al Sham - Independent Idlib and Hama based rebel group, works closely with alqaeda affiliates al nusra and ahrar as part of the army of conquest - 'Jaysh Al Fatah'. Killed an unarmed syrian soldier, beheaded him, and posted it on facebook as well, using terms like 'nusayri'.

Imam Bukhari Jama't: Islamist Salafi groups, comprised mostly of Uzbeks, expressing loyalty to the Taliban. Group closely allied to official alqaeda affiliate al nusra, and alqaeda member-founded group ahrar asham.

Turkistan Islamic Party: formerly known as the East Turkestan Islamic Movement(ETIM), and other names,[a] is an Islamic terrorist and separatist organization founded by Uyghur militants in western China.


Tbf, ISIS isn't nationalist in any sense, Those terrorist groups you talk of fight for national interests, it does not effect me and if people living there want that, then let them have it, tbf I don't know enough about them to label them terrorists, but every people has a right to decide it's future, no matter how much you disagree with them.
Original post by Tawheed
Ali Ibn Abu Talib a.s - the cousin of The prophet Muhammed s.a.w and his closest companion (as per the shia school) - This was compiled from earlier letters and scripts found even earlier - the below can be authentically verified to be atleast 1100-200 years old

"Remember, Maalik, that amongst your subjects there are two kinds of people: those who have the same religion as you have; they are brothers to you, and those who have religions other than that of yours, they are human beings like you. Men of either category suffer from the same weaknesses and disabilities that human beings are inclined to, they commit sins, indulge in vices either intentionally or foolishly and unintentionally without realizing the enormity of their deeds. Let your mercy and compassion come to their rescue and help in the same way and to the same extent that you expect Allah to show mercy and forgiveness to you".
Letter 53 - To Malik Al Ashtor for Governance


Tbf, you've done your research and know what you're talking about, so you have my respect regardless.
Original post by Tawheed
Ali Ibn Abu Talib a.s - the cousin of The prophet Muhammed s.a.w and his closest companion (as per the shia school) - This was compiled from earlier letters and scripts found even earlier - the below can be authentically verified to be atleast 1100-200 years old

"Remember, Maalik, that amongst your subjects there are two kinds of people: those who have the same religion as you have; they are brothers to you, and those who have religions other than that of yours, they are human beings like you. Men of either category suffer from the same weaknesses and disabilities that human beings are inclined to, they commit sins, indulge in vices either intentionally or foolishly and unintentionally without realizing the enormity of their deeds. Let your mercy and compassion come to their rescue and help in the same way and to the same extent that you expect Allah to show mercy and forgiveness to you".
Letter 53 - To Malik Al Ashtor for Governance


Also, I respect anyone willing to die for their beliefs, no matter how wrong I think they are. It demands a certain amount of respect to put your life on the line.
Original post by dozyrosie
Is religion really relevant when people are being murdered by looneys?


Ahh but lonneys, they could be considered true muslims, who follow the Koran, letter for letter?
Original post by IronicalMan
Ahh but lonneys, they could be considered true muslims, who follow the Koran, letter for letter?


The call of a book is not what we should consider sane, in fact most people do not consider murder a sane act. Is religion so evil it calls for murder? So are the Looneys just evil?

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