The leave vote was a vote against an increasingly Orwellian present
There are many factors surrounding Brexit, perhaps most controversially immigration. But I believe it would be a mistake to think that this is the average Leave voter's main concern. There is something far more powerful bubbling under the surface, something almost unconcious but nonetheless driven.
The West, and perhaps especially Europe, has become increasingly Orwellian as of late. Mass rapes are covered up by the police due to underlying fears that it does not suit a particular political narrative, just saying or writing things about particular demographics can get you a prison sentence (which many people are very pleased about), facts and statistics are condemned or censored if they do not fit the right narrative, major social media sites with millions upon millions of viewers cater news feeds to fit a narrative, and all the while news corporations fuel anger by giving ridiculous attention towards silly protests at petty trivialities such as adverts that don't appease those with corpulent bodies, or pop songs that are slightly too racy.
This is a world where you can lose friends, your job, and can villified by millions online for saying the wrong thing (even if it is factual), or for even wearing an innocuous shirt. The media stirs up hatred and vitriol in people to fight between each other about the transgender politics of toilets in some backwards state in America while an attempt is made to stone to death a trans person in the street in Germany by two men who belong to a demographic of whom over half in this country think gays should be punished by the law, and yet we cannot worry publicly about this without being labelled with terms that could get us totally outcast, simply because said demographic is surreptitiously given special priveleges.
Some of the Remain campaigners are the most Orwellian citizens. Just think of those protesting against the democratic vote, holding up signs with slogans such as "We love the EU!". These are people proclaiming love for a unelected bureaucracy which has a powerful but often clandestine role in controlling the lives of the people in the country's it rules over. It does not care about the individual, it favours big business over small ones, and it gives all the power to the richest countries and none to the poorer ones, even making it especially easy for the richer countries to suck the poorer ones dry (such as Greece) and spit them back out again. Just imagine the level of cognitive dissonance required (or shall we call it doublethink?) for people who call themselves leftists to proclaim that they feel love for this neoliberal establishment above all other establishments. The only way such cognitive dissonance can occur is through long term brainwashing.
Whether or not leaving the EU looks as if it will really makes any difference to how Orwellian the world has become makes little difference. The point was that most of us had a good sense that this was a vote to prove how many there are who dislike the establishment. If Remain had won, that would be it; there would no more chances to shake things up and stop us from going down this increasingly Orwellian route.
The West, and perhaps especially Europe, has become increasingly Orwellian as of late. Mass rapes are covered up by the police due to underlying fears that it does not suit a particular political narrative, just saying or writing things about particular demographics can get you a prison sentence (which many people are very pleased about), facts and statistics are condemned or censored if they do not fit the right narrative, major social media sites with millions upon millions of viewers cater news feeds to fit a narrative, and all the while news corporations fuel anger by giving ridiculous attention towards silly protests at petty trivialities such as adverts that don't appease those with corpulent bodies, or pop songs that are slightly too racy.
This is a world where you can lose friends, your job, and can villified by millions online for saying the wrong thing (even if it is factual), or for even wearing an innocuous shirt. The media stirs up hatred and vitriol in people to fight between each other about the transgender politics of toilets in some backwards state in America while an attempt is made to stone to death a trans person in the street in Germany by two men who belong to a demographic of whom over half in this country think gays should be punished by the law, and yet we cannot worry publicly about this without being labelled with terms that could get us totally outcast, simply because said demographic is surreptitiously given special priveleges.
Some of the Remain campaigners are the most Orwellian citizens. Just think of those protesting against the democratic vote, holding up signs with slogans such as "We love the EU!". These are people proclaiming love for a unelected bureaucracy which has a powerful but often clandestine role in controlling the lives of the people in the country's it rules over. It does not care about the individual, it favours big business over small ones, and it gives all the power to the richest countries and none to the poorer ones, even making it especially easy for the richer countries to suck the poorer ones dry (such as Greece) and spit them back out again. Just imagine the level of cognitive dissonance required (or shall we call it doublethink?) for people who call themselves leftists to proclaim that they feel love for this neoliberal establishment above all other establishments. The only way such cognitive dissonance can occur is through long term brainwashing.
Whether or not leaving the EU looks as if it will really makes any difference to how Orwellian the world has become makes little difference. The point was that most of us had a good sense that this was a vote to prove how many there are who dislike the establishment. If Remain had won, that would be it; there would no more chances to shake things up and stop us from going down this increasingly Orwellian route.
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*Grabs popcorn for FredandJohn and JordanL to come onto this thread.
When the average remain voter voted on the grounds of not wanting to leave Europe; you new they were doomed from the start.
Spoiler
Original post by KingBradly
The West, and perhaps especially Europe, has become increasingly Orwellian as of late. Mass rapes are covered up by the police due to underlying fears that it does not suit a particular political narrative, just saying or writing things about particular demographics can get you a prison sentence (which many people are very pleased about), facts and statistics are condemned or censored if they do not fit the right narrative, major social media sites with millions upon millions of viewers cater news feeds to fit a narrative, and all the while news corporations fuel anger by giving ridiculous attention towards silly protests at petty trivialities such as adverts that don't appease those with corpulent bodies, or pop songs that are slightly too racy.
This is a world where you can lose friends, your job, and can villified by millions online for saying the wrong thing (even if it is factual), or for even wearing an innocuous shirt. The media stirs up hatred and vitriol in people to fight between each other about the transgender politics of toilets in some backwards state in America while an attempt is made to stone to death a trans person in the street in Germany by two men who belong to a demographic of whom over half in this country think gays should be punished by the law, and yet we cannot worry publicly about this without being labelled with terms that could get us totally outcast, simply because said demographic is surreptitiously given special priveleges.
This is a world where you can lose friends, your job, and can villified by millions online for saying the wrong thing (even if it is factual), or for even wearing an innocuous shirt. The media stirs up hatred and vitriol in people to fight between each other about the transgender politics of toilets in some backwards state in America while an attempt is made to stone to death a trans person in the street in Germany by two men who belong to a demographic of whom over half in this country think gays should be punished by the law, and yet we cannot worry publicly about this without being labelled with terms that could get us totally outcast, simply because said demographic is surreptitiously given special priveleges.
What has this got to do with the EU?
You're talking about what speech is/isn't socially acceptable, leaving the EU won't make the UK some non-politically correct utopia.
Original post by KingBradly
Some of the Remain campaigners are the most Orwellian citizens. Just think of those protesting against the democratic vote, holding up signs with slogans such as "We love the EU!". These are people proclaiming love for a unelected bureaucracy which has a powerful but often clandestine role in controlling the lives of the people in the country's it rules over. It does not care about the individual, it favours big business over small ones, and it gives all the power to the richest countries and none to the poorer ones, even making it especially easy for the richer countries to suck the poorer ones dry (such as Greece) and spit them back out again. Just imagine the level of cognitive dissonance required (or shall we call it doublethink?) for people who call themselves leftists to proclaim that they feel love for this neoliberal establishment above all other establishments. The only way such cognitive dissonance can occur is through long term brainwashing.
Or, maybe they protest against the vote because they believe that remaining in the EU would benefit either them or the UK as a whole? Or both?
To end up with Theresa May or Debbie McGee? 
Well you're in for a shock now that you've left us with two candidates for our unelected PM who would both fit in perfectly in an Orwellian dystopia.
But more seriously, you don't seem to understand what democracy is. A majority of 2% wouldn't be enough to win a referendum on a constitutional decision almost anywhere in the world - it's a tiny majority that could change overnight, and probably alright has. Protesting against the result is in no way undemocratic. People can protest whatever they want. Parliament refusing to leave the EU might be undemocratic, except it's really not, because it was a non-binding referendum. We live in a representative democracy where we elect representatives to make decisions, because most people just aren't qualified. This is reality, this isn't Orwellian, it's the system we've had since the UK become a democratic state.
Ironically, the EU is more democratic than the UK.
Ironically, the EU is more democratic than the UK.
Original post by Alba2013
I love the EU and I am proud to be an European citizen, I love every single unelected bureaucrat that has granted me the freedom to travel, work and study and experience other cultures, come and go as I please, learn languages and make friends from many countries 
You can do all that without being in the European Union whilst still be European. I don't suppose you think any country outside the EU still lives in a cave do you?
Original post by JordanL_
Ironically, the EU is more democratic than the UK.
Should of gone to Specsavers
Original post by Hachik0
You can do all that without being in the European Union whilst still be European. I don't suppose you think any country outside the EU still lives in a cave do you?
Since I have a friend at this very moment sweating blood to get a working visa for his internship in Germany in September, sure people from outside the EU can still do all those things, but not without a great deal of planning, stress and caveats. I am happy and thankful I could pick up my bags and go to Germany tomorrow.
My EU passport is my most prized possession
I'm not sure why you even bring up the cave thing, I never said anything to imply that.
Original post by Alba2013
Since I have a friend at this very moment sweating blood to get a working visa for his internship in Germany in September, sure people from outside the EU can still do all those things, but not without a great deal of planning, stress and caveats. I am happy and thankful I could pick up my bags and go to Germany tomorrow.
My EU passport is my most prized possession
I'm not sure why you even bring up the cave thing, I never said anything to imply that.
My EU passport is my most prized possession
I'm not sure why you even bring up the cave thing, I never said anything to imply that.
Well luckily for you it'll be a United Kingdom passport in 2 years or less. As for you friend, this country faces far greater challenges. No doubt they will get there visa soon enough.
Original post by Hachik0
When the average remain voter voted on the grounds of not wanting to leave Europe; you new they were doomed from the start.
Spoiler
That gives me a lovely image of Britannia hoisting up the anchor and pottering off
Original post by Napp
That gives me a lovely image of Britannia hoisting up the anchor and pottering off
To trade with the rest of the world
Original post by Hachik0
To trade with the rest of the world
*try* to trade with them, because lets face it Britain doesnt really have nything to trade with.. We have next to no heavy industry, no mines worth a damn, we're an net importer of food stuffs and well everything really...
As far as i can make out the only things Britain exports are;
Minis, Jaguar-Landrover, 'dont panic' t-shirts and dodgy financial services.
I agree with the top bit, but I don't see how this is related to the EU. Regardless of whether we are in or out, I think this problem would persist - and I don't think such a realisation was going through the average leave voter's head in the ballot box. On the whole though, I'd much prefer to have a discussion on the media/politicians becoming increasingly Orwellian than ramble on about the EU. I think most of us who have bothered to discuss the EU on here have made our opinions well known and we aren't going to change them, so at the very least let's focus on what comes next and try and set out a vision for the new future of this country. But for now, let's talk about the former part of the OP.
Original post by Napp
*try* to trade with them, because lets face it Britain doesnt really have nything to trade with.. We have next to no heavy industry, no mines worth a damn, we're an net importer of food stuffs and well everything really...
As far as i can make out the only things Britain exports are;
Minis, Jaguar-Landrover, 'dont panic' t-shirts and dodgy financial services.
As far as i can make out the only things Britain exports are;
Minis, Jaguar-Landrover, 'dont panic' t-shirts and dodgy financial services.
Will*
USA, India, China, New Zealand, Australia to name a few. All look forward to trading with us.
Happy days
Original post by Hachik0
Well luckily for you it'll be a United Kingdom passport in 2 years or less. As for you friend, this country faces far greater challenges. No doubt they will get there visa soon enough.
Are you getting all sarcastic with me because I said I love my EU passport? Because I definitely would NOT be happy if it turned into a UK passport in 2 years... Luckily for me it belongs to a country with EU membership so I will continue to be a European citizen and enjoy its many benefits for many years to come
You can keep your great challenges though!
Original post by Hachik0
Will*
USA, India, China, New Zealand, Australia to name a few. All look forward to trading with us.
Happy days
USA, India, China, New Zealand, Australia to name a few. All look forward to trading with us.
Happy days
Mmm to a point but with the kiwis and Aussies since they had to realign their economies east when britain first joined the EU they hold more to the opinion of why not there isnt a downside but they dont particularly like the British since Brexit kicked them quite painfully, my KiwiSaver went through the flaw-.-
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