The Student Room Group
Uni students - Complete our survey >>
Uni students - Complete our survey >>
Uni students - Complete our survey >>

Girlfriend of black man shot by police: "All Lives Matter".

Scroll to see replies

Original post by jake4198
I provided data and sources for all of my evidence, if people want to check it and put it into context then they're free to do that. I was representing the data how it was presented to me and I'm not trying to push any sort of misinformation. My agenda is simply to deal with problems through rational, appreciation of the facts and reason.
.


Sounds like you were representing the data that you chose to go looking for, if I'm honest.

If you want a fair representation of data, you would either say:

1) More white men are killed by the police than black men
2) More white men commit crime than black men

Or

1) A black man is more likely to get shot by police than a white man
2) Black men are more likely to commit crime, than white men

Also this:

My agenda is simply to deal with problems through rational, appreciation of the facts and reason.

I'm against the BLM movement because it doesn't make sense to say that black men are disproportionally killed in the US


I'm sorry, did you say... "Rational appreciation of the facts and reason?" Which part of this is rational reasoning :lol:
Original post by tanyapotter
Wait, who the hell in the left is opposing this? Who DOESN'T want better access to education for the black community? But is crying about the BLM movement and pushing this #WhiteLivesMatter agenda going to bring us any closer to this solution of yours? It's only going to make black people resent you even more for being so opportunistic and insensitive.


Once again, as always, where was I pushing "this #WhiteLivesMatter agenda"? I wasn't. Stop putting words in my mouth and actually quote things that I openly supported instead of implying falsities.

As I said before, I know the left put emotion above reason, but facts don't care about people's feelings. I'm not here to appease emotional hysteria or submit to political correctness to refrain from triggering nonsensical liberals. I'm not being opportunistic or insensitive, and let's remind ourselves it was you who triggered this entire discussion - like always. I provided data as evidence to the contrary to what you said, and my original post was in solidarity to the woman in the video. If replying to your hysterical comment is perceived as insensitive and opportunistic then fine.
Reply 42
Avatar for math42
math42
20
Original post by KingBradly
Black people are around twice as likely to be killed by police, but when you account for their higher crime rate, it pretty much evens out. The only reason we think the police target blacks particularly is because this is the narrative the media is trying to create. Far, far more whites are killed by police so they could easily fill the news with stories about those deaths.

This is something that bugs me so much. Every second many people around the world are suffering, starving, dying, etc. But people just blindly decide to be invested in certain things because the media happens to think them worth talking about. I'm not saying it's not a problem, or that nobody should care, but certainly there are issues that result in far more deaths that nobody cares to talk about because the media is not pushing it. So many people lap up a narrative pushed by establishment institutions which in principle they would claim to be against. It's pretty much what Heath Ledger's Joker said lol. If thousands die in car crashes, or from heart disease, or from hunger, or from just run-of-the-mill murder, no special juicy relationship between the murder and the murderer for the media to latch on to, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". It is part of the plan when the media decides it isn't worth your time. It is not a problem when the media decides it isn't worth your time. It can be shoved under the rug and ignored when the media decides it isn't worth your time. But if they report it, it's the biggest problem in the world. If they report it trying to push a certain angle, then surely that angle is correct.
Original post by Another
Sounds like you were representing the data that you chose to go looking for, if I'm honest.

If you want a fair representation of data, you would either say:

1) More white men are killed by the police than black men
2) More white men commit crime than black men

Or

1) A black man is more likely to get shot by police than a white man
2) Black men are more likely to commit crime, than white men

Also this:




I'm sorry, did you say... "Rational appreciation of the facts and reason?" Which part of this is rational reasoning :lol:


I said through "rational, (<-- that's a comma) appreciation of the facts and...".

Explain to me how providing statistics is evidence of me pushing a political agenda? I'm sorry if my not representing all of my data as percentages offends you, but I was conveying the information as I got it. Like I said, I provided all of my sources below and people are free to fact-check them.
Original post by WBZ144
I can imagine that if you were to oppose the outrage caused by the rape of White women by a minority of men in certain immigrant commuties by stating that "White on White rape is most common", the responses wouldn't be pretty. The racism behind some of the killings is what's causing the outrage. Someone like Philando Castile, who stays out of trouble won't be harmed by gangs, but he was killed by the police. A Black person in America who doesn't get involved with gangs usually has nothing to fear from them, yet from the sounds of it they still have something to fear from the police. A 12 year old boy can't even play with his toy gun without being shot on the spot!

I oppose those who try to stir racial tensions by displaying their overt racism too, but they do not represent the entire BLM movement, the same way racist and violent police officers do not represent all of the US law enforcement.


The killer of the police officers yesterday in Dallas, Texas, targeted white police officers even though the police officer who shot Castile was an Asian. Black police officers are 3.3 times more likely to use deadly force than white police officers and that's a proven statistic as provided by the University of Pennsylvania.

On your issue of rape, in Sweden 77% of rapes are committed by men of African and Middle Eastern origin even though they represent 5% of the population. Of course that's not the case in every country, and indeed that doesn't provide a pretext to demean and label all Muslims, but we can't ignore facts.

If a police officer is found guilty of killing an unarmed individual for no apparent reason then that is disgraceful and they deserve the full force of the law. As a conservative, I would even support them getting the death penalty. I totally agree with you that overt racism is pertinent in US society - and it's disgusting. It was chilling to watch that video by Castile's girlfriend just as it is in many other cases. I understand the outrage in the black community, but I really am uncomfortable with the notion that protest is the best way to solve it.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by jake4198
Once again, as always, where was I pushing "this #WhiteLivesMatter agenda"? I wasn't. Stop putting words in my mouth and actually quote things that I openly supported instead of implying falsities.

As I said before, I know the left put emotion above reason, but facts don't care about people's feelings. I'm not here to appease emotional hysteria or submit to political correctness to refrain from triggering nonsensical liberals. I'm not being opportunistic or insensitive, and let's remind ourselves it was you who triggered this entire discussion - like always. I provided data as evidence to the contrary to what you said, and my original post was in solidarity to the woman in the video. If replying to your hysterical comment is perceived as insensitive and opportunistic then fine.


Why don't you answer my question? When did the left say that they're against tackling poverty and crime in the black community, and how does the BlackLivesMatter movement take away from that ultimate goal? What are you trying to achieve by "dispelling" this narrative with your divine (and thoroughly biased) knowledge? Do you think black people care that a random person who isn't part of their community and doesn't understand the fear and pain felt by them doesn't believe in their movement?
Original post by The Roast
Rachel Lewis asserted that, “when you say #AllLivesMatter, whether you mean to or not, you’re being racist.”


I have always thought this a very confused point of view. Whilst it is clear that black people are targeted more than white people by the police, and these latest incidents have been disgusting, surely the whole point of this campaign is that a life is a life is a life.

The police shouldn't distinguish between taking a black life or taking a white life. At the moment it seems like they are more willing to murder a black man than a white man, which is completely and utterly wrong. And of course they should value lives more in general - so many deaths at the hands of police in the USA!

By saying ALL lives matter it is to say that we are all human beings and the colour of a person's skin shouldn't make any difference to how much their life matters. Neither of those men - Castille and Sterling - should have been shot at all, and we need to stop looking at black and white and valuing life in general. To continue saying black vs white is to perpetuate the problem - we need to shake off these ridiculous race divisions, because those are the source of why black people are more highly targeted than white people, and it has to stop. Because those lives were wasted in a criminal way at the hands of policemen and we need to value all lives the same no matter what colour somebody's skin is. To do otherwise is sick. End of discussion.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by tanyapotter
Why don't you answer my question? When did the left say that they're against tackling poverty and crime in the black community, and how does the BlackLivesMatter movement take away from that ultimate goal? What are you trying to achieve by "dispelling" this narrative with your divine (and thoroughly biased) knowledge? Do you think black people care that a random person who isn't part of their community and doesn't understand the fear and pain felt by them doesn't believe in their movement?


You really are a broken record. Where did I say the left are against tackling poverty and crime? I didn't. Where did I say I don't care about the black community? I didn't. In response to the former, I was answering your question as you asked what I would do to "solve the problem" of crime and racial divide in the black community.

The problem with the BLM movement is that it has lost all credibility. If you want to tackle racism and discrimination, it needs to be a collective effort as 13% of the population cannot change the views of the remaining 87% if they feel isolated from the movement. If you really want to here the problems with the BLM movement, watch this video:

[video="youtube;TOvpzI7noKs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOvpzI7noKs[/video]
Original post by jake4198
I said through "rational, (<-- that's a comma) appreciation of the facts and...".


I'm sorry, I removed the comma because I thought it was a typo and your sentence didn't make sense with it there. Didn't know you were so touchy over it. I shall duly note that all commas in future quotes are in their rightful place and exactly were you left them, since it was so damn important in the point you were trying to make.

Explain to me how providing statistics is evidence of me pushing a political agenda? I'm sorry if my not representing all of my data as percentages offends you, but I was conveying the information as I got it. Like I said, I provided all of my sources below and people are free to fact-check them.


I can cherry pick any group of statistics I want, to argue any point that I want. If I wanted to claim that baked beans caused cancer, believe me when I say I could go and find a scientific paper that would back up my point.
Original post by jake4198
You really are a broken record. Where did I say the left are against tackling poverty and crime? I didn't. Where did I say I don't care about the black community? I didn't. In response to the former, I was answering your question as you asked what I would do to "solve the problem" of crime and racial divide in the black community.

The problem with the BLM movement is that it has lost all credibility. If you want to tackle racism and discrimination, it needs to be a collective effort as 13% of the population cannot change the views of the remaining 87% if they feel isolated from the movement. If you really want to here the problems with the BLM movement, watch this video:

[video="youtube;TOvpzI7noKs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOvpzI7noKs[/video]


If you actually did your impartial research on the BLM movement, you'd know that it is about the disproportionate UNLAWFUL killing of UNARMED black people, more than it is the disproportionate killing of black people in general.
Original post by tanyapotter
If you actually did your impartial research on the BLM movement, you'd know that it is about the disproportionate UNLAWFUL killing of UNARMED black people, more than it is the disproportionate killing of black people in general.


In August 2015, the ratio was seven-to-one of unarmed black men dying from police gunshots compared to unarmed white men; the ratio was six-to-one by the end of 2015. But MacDonald points out in The Marshall Project that looking at the details of the actual incidents that occurred paints a different picture:

The “unarmed” label is literally accurate, but it frequently fails to convey highly-charged policing situations. In a number of cases, if the victim ended up being unarmed, it was certainly not for lack of trying. At least five black victims had reportedly tried to grab the officer’s gun, or had been beating the cop with his own equipment.

Some were shot from an accidental discharge triggered by their own assault on the officer. And two individuals included in the Post’s “unarmed black victims” category were struck by stray bullets aimed at someone else in justified cop shootings. If the victims were not the intended targets, then racism could have played no role in their deaths.In one of those unintended cases, an undercover cop from the New York Police Department was conducting a gun sting in Mount Vernon, just north of New York City.

One of the gun traffickers jumped into the cop’s car, stuck a pistol to his head, grabbed $2,400 and fled. The officer gave chase and opened fire after the thief again pointed his gun at him. Two of the officer’s bullets accidentally hit a 61-year-old bystander, killing him. That older man happened to be black, but his race had nothing to do with his tragic death. In the other collateral damage case, Virginia Beach, Virginia, officers approached a car parked at a convenience store that had a homicide suspect in the passenger seat. The suspect opened fire, sending a bullet through an officer’s shirt. The cops returned fire, killing their assailant as well as a woman in the driver’s seat. That woman entered the Post’s database without qualification as an “unarmed black victim” of police fire.

MacDonald examines a number of other instances, including unarmed black men in San Diego, CA and Prince George's County, MD attempting to reach for a gun in a police officer's holster. In the San Diego case, the unarmed black man actually "jumped the officer" and assaulted him, and the cop shot the man since he was "fearing for his life." MacDonald also notes that there was an instance in 2015 where "three officers were killed with their own guns, which the suspects had wrestled from them."

Source: https://www.themarshallproject.org/2016/02/08/black-and-unarmed-behind-the-numbers#.6wyX1zvrR
Original post by jake4198
The killer of the police officers yesterday in Dallas, Texas, targeted white police officers even though the police officer who shot Castile was an Asian. Black police officers are 3.3 times more likely to use deadly force than white police officers and that's a proven statistic as provided by the University of Pennsylvania.

On your issue of rape, in Sweden 77% of rapes are committed by men of African and Middle Eastern origin even though they represent 5% of the population. Of course that's not the case in every country, and indeed that doesn't provide a pretext to demean and label all Muslims, but we can't ignore facts.

If a police officer is found guilty of killing an unarmed individual for no apparent reason then that is disgraceful and they deserve the full force of the law. As a conservative, I would even support them getting the death penalty. I totally agree with you that overt racism is pertinent in US society - and it's disgusting. It was chilling to watch that video by Castile's girlfriend just as it is in many other cases. I understand the outrage in the black community, but I really am uncomfortable with the notion that protest is the best way to solve it.


I wasn't talking about Sweden alone, in most European countries this is not the case (White men are the main culprits), yet there is still outrage. Would it be OK to dismiss the concerns because of "White on White" rape?

Asians can be racist towards Blacks too, I myself have faced more racism from Asians than Whites and I never said that all police officers who shoot unarmed Blacks are White. I also don't think that this is a cause to demean everyone in the law enforcement, but protests don't necessarily do this. What BLM protesters need to do is filter out those who are opportunistic and looking for ways to push their own hateful agendas, as is the case with pretty much every movement. But there would be far less protests if nearly all of those officers were given no punishment besides paid leave.
Original post by WBZ144
I wasn't talking about Sweden alone, in most European countries this is not the case (White men are the main culprits), yet there is still outrage. Would it be OK to dismiss the concerns because of "White on White" rape?

Asians can be racist towards Blacks too, I myself have faced more racism from Asians than Whites and I never said that all police officers who shoot unarmed Blacks are White. I also don't think that this is a cause to demean everyone in the law enforcement, but protests don't necessarily do this. What BLM protesters need to do is filter out those who are opportunistic and looking for ways to push their own hateful agendas, as is the case with pretty much every movement. But there would be far less protests if nearly all of those officers were given no punishment besides paid leave.


We're not really in disagreement. I can only apologise for any racism you receive but we both know that racists will never prevail because, put simply, they're not intelligent people.
If he were White, you'd call him a White BOY

They blame White masculinity, yet White males they call boys


LOL
Original post by The Roast
Diamond Reynolds would be considered a 'racist' by 'Black Lives Matter'.

Watch this short video please:

[video]https://youtu.be/A63Qh-c0T8Q[/video]


Back in February, Black Lives Matter co-founder Marissa Jenae Johnson told Fox News’ John Roberts that the phrase “all lives matter” is a “new racial slur”.

Leftist commentators have also repeatedly insisted that saying “all lives matter” is racist. Just yesterday, Advocate.com writer Rachel Lewis asserted that, “when you say #AllLivesMatter, whether you mean to or not, you’re being racist.”




Black lives matter fails so bad lol
Original post by The_Opinion
Well blacks in America do a great job at devaluing themselves, after all they do seem to enjoy shooting each other in large numbers, why don't you start a protest again that? No wait, didn't think so. BLM is a terrorist organisation. All lives matter.

Sigh

When immigrants rape white women then people bring up how white on white rape is more other people get cheesed off.

Black on black crime does not mean people will keep quiet about racially motivated police brutality. Black on black crime is due to high crime rates in black communities. It's not the same thing.

BLM is not a terrorist organisation the same way Britain first isn't a terrorist organisation. A few extremist mentally unstable nutjobs carry out violence. It doesn't make it a terrorist organisation. You might not like the violent methods of some members of the movement but that doesn't mean you should call them names out of spite.

And finally, saying black lives matter does not mean only black lives matter.
Well it shouldn't come as a surprise when a political movement is focusing on a minority. To be honest, I always felt that BLM had some racist undertones, you know, the typical narrative of "evil whites killing innocent blacks".
Reply 57
Avatar for The Roast
The Roast
OP
2
Original post by WBZ144
OK, I wasn't aware that two people speak for an entire movement.

I support the BLM movement, that doesn't mean I don't believe that all lives matter. I am simply against people using that phrase with the intention of downplaying the way that Black lives are being devalued in America.


Does that mean you support every aspect of the BLM, or only the aspects that make it look good?

http://endingthefed.com/inspiration-behind-black-lives-matter-is-on-the-fbis-most-wanted-terrorists-list.html

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/23/all-lives-matter-racist-trump-weekend-campaign-rally-proved-it


Saying 'All Lives Matter' is actually racist. Co-founder of BLM http://endingthefed.com/black-lives-matter-co-founder-demands-white-folks-stop-saying-all-lives-matterits-racist.html


Then you have Black Americans distancing themselves from the BLM movement:

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/nfl-superstar-just-destroyed-black-lives-matter-movement-in-a-huge-way/


The "Black Lives Matter" Slogan Ignores Self-Destructive Behavior


by Derryck Green (bio) :

http://www.nationalcenter.org/P21NVGreenBlackLivesMatter90115.html
Reply 58
Avatar for The Roast
The Roast
OP
2
Original post by seaholme
I have always thought this a very confused point of view. Whilst it is clear that black people are targeted more than white people by the police, and these latest incidents have been disgusting, surely the whole point of this campaign is that a life is a life is a life.

The police shouldn't distinguish between taking a black life or taking a white life. At the moment it seems like they are more willing to murder a black man than a white man, which is completely and utterly wrong. And of course they should value lives more in general - so many deaths at the hands of police in the USA!

By saying ALL lives matter it is to say that we are all human beings and the colour of a person's skin shouldn't make any difference to how much their life matters. Neither of those men - Castille and Sterling - should have been shot at all, and we need to stop looking at black and white and valuing life in general. To continue saying black vs white is to perpetuate the problem - we need to shake off these ridiculous race divisions, because those are the source of why black people are more highly targeted than white people, and it has to stop. Because those lives were wasted in a criminal way at the hands of policemen and we need to value all lives the same no matter what colour somebody's skin is. To do otherwise is sick. End of discussion.



*Cough* innocent till proven guilty in a court of law *Cough*

Let's wait till the policemen are charged before turning TSR into a courtroom.
Original post by The Roast
*Cough* innocent till proven guilty in a court of law *Cough*

Let's wait till the policemen are charged before turning TSR into a courtroom.


Well yeah, I was just going off what I saw in the videos as I assume is everybody else, given they've only just opened investigations. Obviously it's not possible to comment on whether people will actually be found guilty in advance of that happening, and I assume everyone realises that.

However based on the videos I do think they represent the shooting, in the case of Alton Sterling, of a man who was completely subdued when he was shot, and in the case of Philando Castille, of a man who by all accounts and evidence did nothing more than reach to grab his driving licence. Both were completely out of proportion examples of use of lethal force.

I'm not the person who is going to be judging these police officers and can't say if they will be found guilty or what, but really regardless of the outcome I don't think it'll change my opinion on the fact it was disproportionate (whether it is fine or not in the eyes of the law yet, none of us know).
(edited 7 years ago)

Quick Reply

Related discussions

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you