Are you a Zionist?

ATW1

...

Far far from it.

I have a strong dislike
*

Reply 2

ATW1

OP

12

Original post by queen-bee

Far far from it.

I have a strong dislike
*

What are your reasons?

Iron
Lion
in Zion

I am against the way by which Israel was established (which applies to a number of other countries as well).

Now that she has been established, I believe that Israel is here to stay and am against those who think she should be wiped off the map. I believe that this is an obstacle to peace.

That being said, I am against Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories and the expansion of settlements. I believe that these are illegal and an obstacle to peace.

Zionism is very broadly defined so I don't know if I qualify and don't care.

Reply 6

SirAlexFerguson

14

How many UCAS points do I need to meet the entrance requirements? :smile:

Reply 7

admonit

10

Original post by queen-bee

Far far from it.

I have a strong dislike
*

Original post by ATW1

What are your reasons?

Let me suppose: "Arab Zionist" sounds too exotic. :cool:

Reply 8

oShahpo

20

Zionism is the belief that Jews should have a land in which they are a majority, for this exactly I disagree with it. What if I make up my own religion, invite a few of my friends to it and decide we should have our own holy house? What if this holy house I chose was your own?

That being said, Jews have been discriminated against for a fu*knormous amount of years, so perhaps they do deserve a place where they feel safe. I just don't understand the logic of enforcing the same plight they faced for years on innocent Palestinians.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 9

oShahpo

20

Original post by champ_mc99

I feel like you saw this thread and had to play devil's advocate.

look at his name.

Reply 10

chemting

16

Its always dem goddam joos. Its dem joooos! Dem bloody joos!

Reply 11

PrincessBO$$

19

I personally have no probs with them having their own land. I however think they should get of palestines's land and find somewhere else. They can stay there if they want just dont cut of their god damn water and electricty

Reply 12

oShahpo

20

Original post by TelAviv

Why do you hate us so much?

He's a troll. His username is that of the Orlando murderer.

Reply 13

username2313507

14

Original post by oShahpo

He's a troll. His username is that of the Orlando murderer.

I am aware of this, he is probably the same guy who makes a new account for this stuff every few days.

I am just curious to what motivates him when no one seems to care

Reply 14

Josb

6

Original post by oShahpo

Zionism is the belief that Jews should have a land in which they are a majority, for this exactly I disagree with it. What if I make up my own religion, invite a few of my friends to it and decide we should have our own holy house? What if this holy house I chose was your own?

That being said, Jews have been discriminated against for a fu*knormous amount of years, so perhaps they do deserve a place where they feel safe. I just don't understand the logic of enforcing the same plight they faced for years on innocent Palestinians.

Zionism specifically implied establishing a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Zion is the name of a hill in Jerusalem.

There were other people in 1880-90s who tried to find a better location (an empty land with a better climate). The British notably wanted to offer Uganda and Herzl also considered Argentina, but Zionist leaders ultimately rejected these alternatives. They were mostly atheists, like Herzl, but thought that they would convince more Jews - still overwhelmingly religious at that time - by going to a land of such religious significance for them.

Zionism was designed at the end of the 19th century, when nationalist conquest was a diplomatic standard; it wouldn't have been done like that today. Moreover, Zionism was non-violent at its beginning. Zionists didn't seek to have an independent country; they had just hoped to become a protectorate within the Ottoman, then British, empire.

There was however a minority faction among Zionists that supported the military conquest of "Greater Israel", with forced relocation of Arabs. Most of the ethnic cleansing that happened in the War of 1948 was done by their militia, outside of the supervision of the Israeli army. This faction had a political party named the Herut, which later became the Likud - now the party of Netanyahu... The current treatment of Palestinians is a direct result of the collapse of the Israeli left in the 1990s, which advocated a more liberal kind of Zionism. For example, the fact that some Arabs have the Israeli citizenship is a legacy of their governance in the early years of Israel.

Reply 15

ATW1

OP

12

Original post by PrincessBO$$

I personally have no probs with them having their own land. I however think they should get of palestines's land and find somewhere else. They can stay there if they want just dont cut of their god damn water and electricty

Looks like you've been watching the BBC and Al Jazeera. Reports of Israel cutting off the water supply turned out to be false and were only given media attention because it demonised Israel and reasserted the anti-Semitic tone of the media. Your first sentence is enough to contradict your initial post. If you believe Jews should have their own land and be able to govern themselves, then you are a Zionist.

Reply 16

DauntlessOne

2

If Jews are so keen to have their own land, then why did they become the wondering tribe? That's rhetorical by the way.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 17

ChaoticButterfly

20

I'm not massively apposed to idea theoretically. It still seems like a form of ethnic nationalism though. So not that keen on it.

Israel exists now though so we just got to be pragmatic and ti is in theory a secular country which is good.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 18

the bear

20

God gave the Jews the land with boundaries...

Western: the Mediterranean Sea

Eastern: from Kadesh-barnea, via Zin and the salt sea to Zedad and Hamath in the north

Southern: from Kadesh Barnea to the Brook of Egypt (probably not the Nile)

Northern: from the Mediterranean Sea (Mount Hor) to Hamath to Zedad*

so.... God is a Zionist ?*

Reply 19

Josb

6

Original post by viddy9

Israel was founded after the ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, and repeated terrorist attacks against the British. Like the United States and Australia, it's a settler-colonial society. Israel shouldn't be been created, certainly not in the way in which it was. Many Palestinians opposed mass Jewish immigration into Palestine because they knew what would happen, but for decades Arabs and Jews in Palestine lived and worked together peacefully, and it was a sad thing when in metropolitan areas like Haifa, these ties were broken when the Zionists chose to violently create a state.

That said, the best solution is the international consensus on the two-state solution, which requires Israel to end their illegal occupation and annexation of the Palestinian territories.

Like another poster, I don't know whether this makes me a Zionist or not, and don't care.

Israel was founded *before* the "ethnic cleansing" of 1948, by a resolution of the UN. Arabs attacked Jewish settlements the day after the resolution was voted. The Zionists didn't "choose to violently create a state" - apart from the revisionists I mentioned above.

Are you a Zionist?

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