Why is sexism against men largely ignored in the UK?
Men on average get more severe prison sentences than women who have committed the same crime. (http://mra-uk.co.uk/?p=215)
There is evidence to suggests exams favour females (http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/20th-january-2001/12/how-exams-are-fixed-in-favour-of-girls) and that females are marked higher for the same quality work (http://mra-uk.co.uk/?p=437). Even if this is not the case there is still an attainment gap which isn't widely addressed. (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130401151715/http://www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/00389-2007BKT-EN.pdf)
Male genital mutilation is legal while female genital mutilation is not, despite the information we have on both suggesting they are comparable. (http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2014/02/female-genital-mutilation-and-male-circumcision-time-to-confront-the-double-standard/)
I have never seen these or similar issues covered by mainstream media. These are incredibly significant cases of sexism, but they are not often discussed. Why is it that sexism against men gets very little attention, in your opinion?
NOTE: I believe sexism against both men and women matters. I'm not saying sexism against one sex matters more than the other. I'm simply saying that there are massive cases of sexism against men in the UK which are ignored, and I'm asking why people think that is. I'm clarifying this so nobody tries to accuse me of being a woman hater or some **** like that.
There is evidence to suggests exams favour females (http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/20th-january-2001/12/how-exams-are-fixed-in-favour-of-girls) and that females are marked higher for the same quality work (http://mra-uk.co.uk/?p=437). Even if this is not the case there is still an attainment gap which isn't widely addressed. (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130401151715/http://www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/00389-2007BKT-EN.pdf)
Male genital mutilation is legal while female genital mutilation is not, despite the information we have on both suggesting they are comparable. (http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2014/02/female-genital-mutilation-and-male-circumcision-time-to-confront-the-double-standard/)
I have never seen these or similar issues covered by mainstream media. These are incredibly significant cases of sexism, but they are not often discussed. Why is it that sexism against men gets very little attention, in your opinion?
NOTE: I believe sexism against both men and women matters. I'm not saying sexism against one sex matters more than the other. I'm simply saying that there are massive cases of sexism against men in the UK which are ignored, and I'm asking why people think that is. I'm clarifying this so nobody tries to accuse me of being a woman hater or some **** like that.
(edited 7 years ago)
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It doesn't fit the narrative that females are oppressed and society must cater to them to secure equality (superiority).*
Lad: "Men have a higher suicide rate and suffer from more depression on average than females, this proves that male sexism is alive and well as males are looked down upon for telling someone about their mental health as it doesn't fit the masculine expectations."
two minutes later
Same Lad: "Get a grip you pussy, grow some balls and stop acting like a woman"
LaD CuLtuRe!!!!!!!!
(Not saying this is the only reason why male sexism is ignored in the UK as a whole but I find it rather ironic lol)
two minutes later
Same Lad: "Get a grip you pussy, grow some balls and stop acting like a woman"
LaD CuLtuRe!!!!!!!!
(Not saying this is the only reason why male sexism is ignored in the UK as a whole but I find it rather ironic lol)
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by midnightice
It doesn't fit the narrative that females are oppressed and society must cater to them to secure equality (superiority).*
THANK YOU. This pisses me off so much
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by george_c00per
Lad: "Men have a higher suicide rate and suffer from more depression on average than females."
two minutes later
Same Lad: "Get a grip you pussy, grow some balls and stop acting like a woman"
LaD CuLtuRe!!!!!!!!
(Not saying this is the only reason why male sexism is ignored in the UK as a whole but I find it rather ironic lol)
two minutes later
Same Lad: "Get a grip you pussy, grow some balls and stop acting like a woman"
LaD CuLtuRe!!!!!!!!
(Not saying this is the only reason why male sexism is ignored in the UK as a whole but I find it rather ironic lol)
So you think it's at least partially because a lot of those who advocate mens' rights are sexist against women? Just want to clarify to see if I've understood your example correctly.
Original post by Darelz
So you think it's at least partially because a lot of those who advocate mens' rights are sexist against women? Just want to clarify to see if I've understood your example correctly.
No, it's how a lot of males complain about how sexism is still possible for males (which is important to bring forward) and how we shouldn't ignore genuine calls for help for male sufferers of depression etc. but then belittle males who actually do come forward and tell them to "man up" and so on. In other words they complain about X happening when they are quite often the ones who are causing X to actually happen in the first place.
To a large extent, men have more important things to worry about than every little social injustice that society perpetuates. We acknowledge that while things may not be perfectly fair, living in a rich Western democracy means that, for the most part, we are insanely privileged and life can't conceivably get much better.
Modern feminists never managed to grasp this idea.
Modern feminists never managed to grasp this idea.
Women show far more in-group bias than men (women like women much more than men like men). In addition I'd say that men often have an innate instinct to please and protect women; indeed biologically this makes perfect sense. So both men and women are more interested in helping women with whatever ills befall them.
sexism against men generally revolves around the fact that men don't liked to be compared to women, or at least what society tells us what a woman is ('soft', maternal, emotional, etc). this is why men are seen as stronger (hence harsher prison sentences), less caring to family (so less likely to win childcare) and 'tough' (so don't talk about feelings, leading to higher suicide rate). so I guess *technically* it's still sexism against women but it affects men this time. and while we all agree that mens issues are super important, a) some people can't look past the fact that it stems from the patriarchy and try and turn it back to women's rights and b) we're all (men and women) still stuck in the same mindset so while on the surface we can see that these things are bad, we'll probably still laugh at guys who act soft and tell them to stop being a pussy...
tl;dr - because the part of our brain saying 'loooool men can't act like women #growapair' is louder than the part saying 'wait, but men are hurt by this mindset!'
tl;dr - because the part of our brain saying 'loooool men can't act like women #growapair' is louder than the part saying 'wait, but men are hurt by this mindset!'
Original post by lowkeypunk
sexism against men generally revolves around the fact that men don't liked to be compared to women, or at least what society tells us what a woman is ('soft', maternal, emotional, etc). this is why men are seen as stronger (hence harsher prison sentences), less caring to family (so less likely to win childcare) and 'tough' (so don't talk about feelings, leading to higher suicide rate). so I guess *technically* it's still sexism against women but it affects men this time. and while we all agree that mens issues are super important, a) some people can't look past the fact that it stems from the patriarchy and try and turn it back to women's rights and b) we're all (men and women) still stuck in the same mindset so while on the surface we can see that these things are bad, we'll probably still laugh at guys who act soft and tell them to stop being a pussy...
tl;dr - because the part of our brain saying 'loooool men can't act like women #growapair' is louder than the part saying 'wait, but men are hurt by this mindset!'
tl;dr - because the part of our brain saying 'loooool men can't act like women #growapair' is louder than the part saying 'wait, but men are hurt by this mindset!'
Though I raise an eyebrow at the notion of patriarchy, you have a good point in your tl;dr there. I have seen on a personal level the reality of the all-too frequent most tragic end result of all-too common male depression. Yet even in the wake of this, I have a great deal of difficulty training myself to get over the gut reaction to vulnerabilities, sadness, lack of direction, you name it, in myself and other men: "just get over it". It is nowhere close to my conscious, reasoned actual view, but perhaps it is these gut feelings that are instrumental in stopping anyone caring enough to truly address the problem.
Everyone is born sexist
Pretty much every single human being on this planet is born in some way or another sexist towards men. It's called gynocentricism. It will never change and men will continue to be oppressed in some form or another forever.
Original post by 1 8 13 20 42
Though I raise an eyebrow at the notion of patriarchy, you have a good point in your tl;dr there. I have seen on a personal level the reality of the all-too frequent most tragic end result of all-too common male depression. Yet even in the wake of this, I have a great deal of difficulty training myself to get over the gut reaction to vulnerabilities, sadness, lack of direction, you name it, in myself and other men: "just get over it". It is nowhere close to my conscious, reasoned actual view, but perhaps it is these gut feelings that are instrumental in stopping anyone caring enough to truly address the problem.
I tried not to lay on the patriarchy thing because (while I'm a believer) I know it ruffles some feathers here at tsr. didn't want to let my point by clouded by pointlessly arguing with people over the existence of it.
but yes, I agree. I absolutely hate, hate, HATE the idea of men suffering because showing vulnerability is seen as a bad thing but in reality my gut reaction is also 'get over it'. having to talk yourself into reacting a certain way means any actions you take as a result are going to be a bit...watered down. if that makes sense.
A larger portion of men tend not to be so easily offended in comparison to their female counterparts.
Because sexism against women is a much bigger issue and comparing sexism against men to sexism against women, men have it very easy.
And your example of male genital mutilation and fgm. Firstly FGM is often life threatening and only has negatives, MGM is often required in medical circumstances, is not life threatening or harmful if done properly and can actually be healthy in some circumstances.
It annoys me when people elevate sexism against men to the levels women have it because they by far don't have it to the same extent.
And your example of male genital mutilation and fgm. Firstly FGM is often life threatening and only has negatives, MGM is often required in medical circumstances, is not life threatening or harmful if done properly and can actually be healthy in some circumstances.
It annoys me when people elevate sexism against men to the levels women have it because they by far don't have it to the same extent.
Original post by Proximo
Because sexism against women is a much bigger issue and comparing sexism against men to sexism against women, men have it very easy.
In the UK? How so?
Original post by 1 8 13 20 42
In the UK? How so?
Just to name a few, the 'lad culture' that exists which often sees women as sex objects, this is supported by the United Nations when they carried an investigation on violence against women and released a report showing that Britain had a severe problem with it and stated it had a 'boys' club sexist culture'
In the media for example the notorious page 3 of the Sun, polls conducted asking whether it should be removed found that 48% of males who voted said that it should be kept - you can't say that isn't a problem.
Then you have the gender pay gap and the fact that women undergo occupational segregation and are under represented in managerial roles.
There also rising numbers of groups promoting male superiority I forgot the name of it but there was a documentary recently following the leader of a male superiority group in the UK.
The list goes on. But I'll admit, it's no where near as bad as Middle Eastern countries, *cough* Saudi Arabia *cough*
Original post by Proximo
Then you have the gender pay gap and the fact that women undergo occupational segregation and are under represented in managerial roles.
Then you have the gender pay gap and the fact that women undergo occupational segregation and are under represented in managerial roles.
Someone is new to this issue. Just a bit of advice - research your points before you spew them across the internet.
Original post by Proximo
Because sexism against women is a much bigger issue and comparing sexism against men to sexism against women, men have it very easy.
And your example of male genital mutilation and fgm. Firstly FGM is often life threatening and only has negatives, MGM is often required in medical circumstances, is not life threatening or harmful if done properly and can actually be healthy in some circumstances.
It annoys me when people elevate sexism against men to the levels women have it because they by far don't have it to the same extent.
And your example of male genital mutilation and fgm. Firstly FGM is often life threatening and only has negatives, MGM is often required in medical circumstances, is not life threatening or harmful if done properly and can actually be healthy in some circumstances.
It annoys me when people elevate sexism against men to the levels women have it because they by far don't have it to the same extent.
I have a feeling you didn't look at the link I gave about MGM and FGM, right? It basically refutes your point. Feel free to criticise the piece if you disagree though.
Also, I'm stunned you can call these issues "having it easy". Education, health, and justice are incredibly important as they can influence the rest of people's lives, they're areas you want to have as little discrimination as possible in. Why do you feel discrimination against men in these areas is unimportant?
I'd also like to point out I never said men have it worse or anything like that, although perhaps you're just commenting on the people who do say that? Either way, that does bring up a good point. Comparing sexism can lead to pointless bickering about who has it worse, taking away focus from the actual issues which need to be solved.
(edited 7 years ago)
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