Advice needed: About appealing my Final University Grade.
Hi I'll try my best to keep this brief as a I can but basically, I have finished a Music & Sound Production Technology degree at Bournemouth University, and was expected to achieve a 2:2 with hons, I had got a 2:2 in my second year and 2:2 in all my units in final year, all I had needed was a 48 to secure a 2:2 overall but unfortunately both my supervisors did not support me enough in my dissertation and I've been awarded a 3rd with honours (By the way I haven't received my full grade yet, I know this because a student had obtained there results. how Bournemouth gives our final year grades is by referring to students not by their names but by their reference numbers.) I've been extremely frustrated by this, of course I admit my writing and knowledge sits within the 2:2 category and I had worked as hard as I could on all my subjects. But I have to say that both my supervisors were absolutely useless. I had chosen to do a Individual Project Portfolio, for my dissertation, which means I had to write compositions of a total of 16-20 minutes worth and a 6000 word essay and choose the appropriate supervisor who I could relate my topic too, I choose Sampling as my main topic and of practice and my first supervisor said thats a good topic and its a large area to explore so I narrowed this into Sampling videogame/film sounds to create compositions based off of electronic dance music. Supervisor 1 said this was good and unique.
This is where things got ****ed up, our course is short with lecturers and I had already chosen mine in the first 2 weeks, and the tutors I had asked to supervise me said they were all full, and I had been dumped with a secondary supervisor who turns out to be the head of my department, in which he has absolutely zero expertise in Music Production and has not got any background within this field, his background is Networking. And I was not allowed to change supervisors. I was extremely pissed off at the University about this and brought this up with my first supervisor and even he wasn't too happy.
During my final year of Uni, I had basically being given a extension for all my units, I had been suffering from depression at the time, and had picked up illnesses on the way, and also to mention my dad was fighting cancer during my first year of uni and this did have a massive impact on my work. (I had mitigating circumstances for this in my first year about this to notify my tutors).I had told both my supervisors I don't know if they had remembered or considered this. Its difficult to tell. In march, all us students were to present our work to our supervisors and tutors to discuss our projects. Supervisor 1 attended the other supervisor did not attend.
After handing in our dissertations, we had to present our work to both our supervisors separately at a FODT event, (Festival of Design Technology event.) and all students received this Email.
" Hi, Please note that the format for the Festival of Design and Technology (FODT) event has been finalised and has been appended to the Project Handbook available online in MYBU. In accordance with the schedule your project will be assessed by both of your supervisors on the 14th June. You will need to arrange a time for your presentation with your supervisors. As it is not always possible for both supervisors to see the same presentation at the same time it is acceptable to present separately to both supervisors if necessary – it is essential however that both of your supervisors assess your work. The goal of the presentation is for you to provide a brief summary and where appropriate a demonstration of your project lasting approximately 10 minutes and followed by 5 minutes of questions from your supervisors. Your supervisors will be seeking clarification on any aspects of the project that were unclear in the dissertation. The presentation and Q&A session contribute a total of 5% of your total project mark. Best regards Jon"
However my secondary supervisor did not stick to this process, before I was about to present, he approached me with his feedback on my dissertation. And the first paragraph said "This Dissertation was Very poor" he wasn't suppose to do this and directly gave me feedback on my dissertation as he wasn't suppose to, and he had pointed out that Sampling in my introduction had no relevance to my topic? even though my project focused on sampling?! He had also said he didn't know if my project was a research project or individual portfolio project. This was stated on the front cover of my written report. I was extremely pissed off. He is a professor how could he make these mistakes?Later I had a meeting with my first supervisor, I had spoken to him about the processes and bits about my literature review and how I stated in my write up that I found it difficult to find key practitioners within sampling, so practitioners that have demonstrated sampling within electronic dance music he understood that, and said its very difficult to talk about your influence based on creativity and personal preference, which I agreed with and said thats why I had based my topic on the scientific process of sampling and how its used within music production as I was studying a BSC not a BA. I told him about my other supervisors feedback, and he said, "don't worry I'll fight your corner against *supervisors name* your portfolio was very good." even though my project was basically below a 48 grade? The feedback does not reflect the grade at all. The weighting of the report was 60% and the portfolio was 40% 'm asking you guys, do I have a strong case that I can appeal about this? I want to appeal against being dumped with a supervisor that has no expertise in music production and that I had been dumped with him, about the process of how my 2nd supervisor carried this out. And about the amount of guidance I have been given. Also reflecting on all the feedback that was given to me. How I got a 3rd on my dissertation really puzzles me. Although I already have a course lined up for me in October in, Enviromental Acoustics at London South Bank. I still want to appeal against this because I think its total ********, I feel to appeal and then complain directly to my 2nd supervisor (Obviously I won't and this wont solve anything) and to the university.
This is where things got ****ed up, our course is short with lecturers and I had already chosen mine in the first 2 weeks, and the tutors I had asked to supervise me said they were all full, and I had been dumped with a secondary supervisor who turns out to be the head of my department, in which he has absolutely zero expertise in Music Production and has not got any background within this field, his background is Networking. And I was not allowed to change supervisors. I was extremely pissed off at the University about this and brought this up with my first supervisor and even he wasn't too happy.
During my final year of Uni, I had basically being given a extension for all my units, I had been suffering from depression at the time, and had picked up illnesses on the way, and also to mention my dad was fighting cancer during my first year of uni and this did have a massive impact on my work. (I had mitigating circumstances for this in my first year about this to notify my tutors).I had told both my supervisors I don't know if they had remembered or considered this. Its difficult to tell. In march, all us students were to present our work to our supervisors and tutors to discuss our projects. Supervisor 1 attended the other supervisor did not attend.
After handing in our dissertations, we had to present our work to both our supervisors separately at a FODT event, (Festival of Design Technology event.) and all students received this Email.
" Hi, Please note that the format for the Festival of Design and Technology (FODT) event has been finalised and has been appended to the Project Handbook available online in MYBU. In accordance with the schedule your project will be assessed by both of your supervisors on the 14th June. You will need to arrange a time for your presentation with your supervisors. As it is not always possible for both supervisors to see the same presentation at the same time it is acceptable to present separately to both supervisors if necessary – it is essential however that both of your supervisors assess your work. The goal of the presentation is for you to provide a brief summary and where appropriate a demonstration of your project lasting approximately 10 minutes and followed by 5 minutes of questions from your supervisors. Your supervisors will be seeking clarification on any aspects of the project that were unclear in the dissertation. The presentation and Q&A session contribute a total of 5% of your total project mark. Best regards Jon"
However my secondary supervisor did not stick to this process, before I was about to present, he approached me with his feedback on my dissertation. And the first paragraph said "This Dissertation was Very poor" he wasn't suppose to do this and directly gave me feedback on my dissertation as he wasn't suppose to, and he had pointed out that Sampling in my introduction had no relevance to my topic? even though my project focused on sampling?! He had also said he didn't know if my project was a research project or individual portfolio project. This was stated on the front cover of my written report. I was extremely pissed off. He is a professor how could he make these mistakes?Later I had a meeting with my first supervisor, I had spoken to him about the processes and bits about my literature review and how I stated in my write up that I found it difficult to find key practitioners within sampling, so practitioners that have demonstrated sampling within electronic dance music he understood that, and said its very difficult to talk about your influence based on creativity and personal preference, which I agreed with and said thats why I had based my topic on the scientific process of sampling and how its used within music production as I was studying a BSC not a BA. I told him about my other supervisors feedback, and he said, "don't worry I'll fight your corner against *supervisors name* your portfolio was very good." even though my project was basically below a 48 grade? The feedback does not reflect the grade at all. The weighting of the report was 60% and the portfolio was 40% 'm asking you guys, do I have a strong case that I can appeal about this? I want to appeal against being dumped with a supervisor that has no expertise in music production and that I had been dumped with him, about the process of how my 2nd supervisor carried this out. And about the amount of guidance I have been given. Also reflecting on all the feedback that was given to me. How I got a 3rd on my dissertation really puzzles me. Although I already have a course lined up for me in October in, Enviromental Acoustics at London South Bank. I still want to appeal against this because I think its total ********, I feel to appeal and then complain directly to my 2nd supervisor (Obviously I won't and this wont solve anything) and to the university.
(edited 7 years ago)
Scroll to see replies
Editing this post by the way, the post hasn't been formatted the same way I've wrote this out.
Original post by Lay-Z
Use paragraphs man, honestly uni isnt for everyone.. if your struggling to get a 2:2 in music from bournmouth.
I don't think a 2:2 or 3rd will make that much of a difference either way.
If id not mention it on your CV and try do a masters to cover it
I don't think a 2:2 or 3rd will make that much of a difference either way.
If id not mention it on your CV and try do a masters to cover it
Yeah sorted out the format, wasn't the same of how I put it in the chat box. Yeah I get you, most people have told me that tbh, but If I happen to be have got a 48 or 49 I think its definitely worth appealing, I feel robbed by both of my supervisors and lied to especially by my first supervisor.
Ah won't let me format this properly, thats bloody annoying, Apologies if you are happening to read this post, I understand if you want to stab or burn your eyeballs.
It's a long post. Each university has different criteria as to what students can/can't appeal about - it should be in your course handbook or you can find out from your course/department administrator.
Without knowing your departmental policy, it's hard to advise. If I've understood you right, you were not able/allowed by your second supervisor, to present to him, despite this contravening the rules? That, I suspect, would be your strongest ground for appeal.
If your getting onto the new course does not depend on/is not affected by your disseration grade, then I would advise you let it go. Degree mark appeals are difficult, drawn-out and - more often than not - unsuccessful
Posted from TSR Mobile
Without knowing your departmental policy, it's hard to advise. If I've understood you right, you were not able/allowed by your second supervisor, to present to him, despite this contravening the rules? That, I suspect, would be your strongest ground for appeal.
If your getting onto the new course does not depend on/is not affected by your disseration grade, then I would advise you let it go. Degree mark appeals are difficult, drawn-out and - more often than not - unsuccessful
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Lay-Z
Maybe, in my uni; providing you get the required number of modules in each bracket..... 67+ is 1st, 66-57 is 2:1, 56-47 is 2:2
It may just be different unis, but in your case it would probably be worth contacting either a close personal tutor or lecturer
It may just be different unis, but in your case it would probably be worth contacting either a close personal tutor or lecturer
41-49 - 3rd with honors
50-59 - 2:2 with hons
60-69- 2:1 with hons
70 + - first with honsTo be honest, I don't know if I should really, after all my secondary supervisor is the head of my department, I think might be quite bias, and that they could easily take his side over mine.
Original post by Tom Bradford
To be honest, I don't know if I should really, after all my secondary supervisor is the head of my department, I think might be quite bias, and that they could easily take his side over mine.
They will almost certainly take his side. It's better best forgotten imho
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
It's a long post. Each university has different criteria as to what students can/can't appeal about - it should be in your course handbook or you can find out from your course/department administrator.
Without knowing your departmental policy, it's hard to advise. If I've understood you right, you were not able/allowed by your second supervisor, to present to him, despite this contravening the rules? That, I suspect, would be your strongest ground for appeal.
If your getting onto the new course does not depend on/is not affected by your disseration grade, then I would advise you let it go. Degree mark appeals are difficult, drawn-out and - more often than not - unsuccessful
Posted from TSR Mobile
Without knowing your departmental policy, it's hard to advise. If I've understood you right, you were not able/allowed by your second supervisor, to present to him, despite this contravening the rules? That, I suspect, would be your strongest ground for appeal.
If your getting onto the new course does not depend on/is not affected by your disseration grade, then I would advise you let it go. Degree mark appeals are difficult, drawn-out and - more often than not - unsuccessful
Posted from TSR Mobile
Hi I emailed one of the help and advice facilitys our univerity offers and they emailed me a response saying
Dear Tom
Thank you for your enquiry.The appeals procedure and associated forms can be found on the Important information page, under the Appeals section. Please submit your completed appeal form and any supporting evidence to the Academic Administration Manager for your Faculty. For the Faculty of Science and Technology this would be Paula Peckham. Paula can be contacted on [email protected]. Please note that your appeal must be submitted within 10 working days from the publication of results. Please also note that an appeal will normally only be considered under the following grounds:
• There has been a material irregularity or significant administrative error in the assessment process;
• The assessment was not conducted in accordance with the regulations for the programme;
• A students performance in assessment was effected by illness or other factors which could not be divulged at the time. Disagreement with academic judgement is not considered a valid grounds for appeal.
I hope this information has been helpful. You may find it useful to speak to SUBU Advice about your appeal before submission as they are independent from the University and have lots of experience in these matters.
If you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind regards,Lucy Diffey
Student Adviser
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Tom Bradford
Hi I emailed one of the help and advice facilitys our univerity offers and they emailed me a response saying
Dear Tom
Thank you for your enquiry.The appeals procedure and associated forms can be found on the Important information page, under the Appeals section. Please submit your completed appeal form and any supporting evidence to the Academic Administration Manager for your Faculty. For the Faculty of Science and Technology this would be Paula Peckham. Paula can be contacted on [email protected]. Please note that your appeal must be submitted within 10 working days from the publication of results. Please also note that an appeal will normally only be considered under the following grounds:
• There has been a material irregularity or significant administrative error in the assessment process;
• The assessment was not conducted in accordance with the regulations for the programme;
• A students performance in assessment was effected by illness or other factors which could not be divulged at the time. Disagreement with academic judgement is not considered a valid grounds for appeal.
I hope this information has been helpful. You may find it useful to speak to SUBU Advice about your appeal before submission as they are independent from the University and have lots of experience in these matters.
If you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind regards,Lucy Diffey
Student Adviser
Dear Tom
Thank you for your enquiry.The appeals procedure and associated forms can be found on the Important information page, under the Appeals section. Please submit your completed appeal form and any supporting evidence to the Academic Administration Manager for your Faculty. For the Faculty of Science and Technology this would be Paula Peckham. Paula can be contacted on [email protected]. Please note that your appeal must be submitted within 10 working days from the publication of results. Please also note that an appeal will normally only be considered under the following grounds:
• There has been a material irregularity or significant administrative error in the assessment process;
• The assessment was not conducted in accordance with the regulations for the programme;
• A students performance in assessment was effected by illness or other factors which could not be divulged at the time. Disagreement with academic judgement is not considered a valid grounds for appeal.
I hope this information has been helpful. You may find it useful to speak to SUBU Advice about your appeal before submission as they are independent from the University and have lots of experience in these matters.
If you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind regards,Lucy Diffey
Student Adviser
If I've understood your initial post right, I think you would be able to appeal under the second category. That said, going against a head of department (however bad he was) is unlikely to end well/in your favour. I understand the frustration (I appealed my own undergrad dissertation mark, unsuccessfully) but it's probs better to leave it be...
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
If I've understood your initial post right, I think you would be able to appeal under the second category. That said, going against a head of department (however bad he was) is unlikely to end well/in your favour. I understand the frustration (I appealed my own undergrad dissertation mark, unsuccessfully) but it's probs better to leave it be...
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
Surely wouldn't they consider my appeal, and take this to someone higher up such as an external examiner? Just to let you know, there is a lecturer at our university (I have no idea why he applied to be a lecturer here) but he got failed by the head of department and awarded him 2% on his dissertation because it was not relevant to his degree (according to him). He had to pay £5000 and change courses, and he resubmitted his dissertation and scored 97%. He told someone I know, If I had a gun with 2 bullets and was stuck on a island with (Supervisor) and Hitler, I would shoot (Supervisor) twice.
(edited 7 years ago)
Ok read it twice, but wont go into detail.
1. You have to get your appeal in within 10 working days of getting your results.
2. Check what the degree classification is first as soemtimes the rules have extra scope where a grade is in the boundary.
3. Mitigating circumstances should be in before the mark is knowm. You didnt submit a claim and dont appear to have good excuse, so Id doubt they would listen. You can try, but I think it would fail.
4. Go to the SU and get an advisor to assist you in preapring your appeal claim.
5. I think these are the rules- but check with the department.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjFluH51fvNAhWEF8AKHe41DpgQFgggMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fintranetsp.bournemouth.ac.uk%2Fpandptest%2F11a-academic-appeals-taught-awards-policy-and-procedure.docx&usg=AFQjCNHm6FjhL_D8rBnuJ7EiqIRbIWDjrA&cad=rja
6. The full procedure is in that linked document, which you can read for yourself. You might wish to check as the complaint is about the head of department then he shiuld exclude himself from reviewing your appeal.
7. If you luk out there, then you cna appeal to the office of the independent adjudicator.
1. You have to get your appeal in within 10 working days of getting your results.
2. Check what the degree classification is first as soemtimes the rules have extra scope where a grade is in the boundary.
3. Mitigating circumstances should be in before the mark is knowm. You didnt submit a claim and dont appear to have good excuse, so Id doubt they would listen. You can try, but I think it would fail.
4. Go to the SU and get an advisor to assist you in preapring your appeal claim.
5. I think these are the rules- but check with the department.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjFluH51fvNAhWEF8AKHe41DpgQFgggMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fintranetsp.bournemouth.ac.uk%2Fpandptest%2F11a-academic-appeals-taught-awards-policy-and-procedure.docx&usg=AFQjCNHm6FjhL_D8rBnuJ7EiqIRbIWDjrA&cad=rja
6. The full procedure is in that linked document, which you can read for yourself. You might wish to check as the complaint is about the head of department then he shiuld exclude himself from reviewing your appeal.
7. If you luk out there, then you cna appeal to the office of the independent adjudicator.
Original post by Tom Bradford
Surely wouldn't they consider my appeal, and take this to someone higher up such as an external examiner? Just to let you know, there is a lecturer out our university (I have no idea why he applied to be a lecturer here) but he got failed by the head of department and awarded him 2% on his dissertation because it was not relevant to his degree (according to him). He had to pay £5000 and change courses, and he resubmitted his dissertation and scored 97%. He told someone I know, If I had a gun with 2 bullets and was stuck on a island with (Supervisor) and Hitler, I would shoot (Supervisor) twice.
They would of course "consider" your appeal but (call me sceptical) they are highly unlikely to take the side of an outgoing undergrad over their own head of department.
I doubt it would be a thorough/proper investigation and I imagine it would take a very strong case and irrefutable proof of departmental/Supervisor 2 wrongdoing for them to consider involving external examiners. It's also worth noting that often, appeals processes are not transparent - they'll probably not change your mark but equally may not explain the full reasoning for why your appeal is unsuccessful.
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Btw I disagree with goatherd. You shoudl get help though to maximise the effectiveness of any appeal. What you need to point out is that you have been infairly prejudiced.
Am sure ive already responded to a couple of other appeals for Bournemouth.
Again I would disagree with goatherd.
Im not so jaded about the fairness of appeals procedures plus once exhausted then you can take it to the OA. If their appeal was inadequate and defective, then all the better as its a further issue you cna raise with te OA.
.
Anyway o and book an appointment and see one of the SU advisors. G luck Too late at night for this.
Am sure ive already responded to a couple of other appeals for Bournemouth.
Again I would disagree with goatherd.
Im not so jaded about the fairness of appeals procedures plus once exhausted then you can take it to the OA. If their appeal was inadequate and defective, then all the better as its a further issue you cna raise with te OA.
.
Anyway o and book an appointment and see one of the SU advisors. G luck Too late at night for this.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by 999tigger
Btw I disagree with goatherd. You shoudl get help though to maximise the effectiveness of any appeal. What you need to point out is that you have been infairly prejudiced.
Am sure ive already responded to a couple of other appeals for Bournemouth.
Again I would disagree with goatherd.
Im not so jaded about the fairness of appeals procedures plus once exhausted then you can take it to the OA. If their appeal was inadequate and defective, then all the better as its a further issue you cna raise with te OA.
.
Anyway o and book an appointment and see one of the SU advisors. G luck Too late at night for this.
Am sure ive already responded to a couple of other appeals for Bournemouth.
Again I would disagree with goatherd.
Im not so jaded about the fairness of appeals procedures plus once exhausted then you can take it to the OA. If their appeal was inadequate and defective, then all the better as its a further issue you cna raise with te OA.
.
Anyway o and book an appointment and see one of the SU advisors. G luck Too late at night for this.
bump
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Tom Bradford
Thanks man, is there a link to the OA? not sure what OA means aha
http://oiahe.org.uk/making-a-complaint-to-the-oia/how-to-make-a-complaint.aspx
You need to get someone to help you from the SU to prepare your appeal.
Original post by Tom Bradford
I found it difficult to find key practitioners within sampling.
...come again?
Original post by Profesh
...come again?
Good point I was thinking about the appeal aspect. If its a difficult subjkect with scarce sources, then it wont make a good dissertation topic in the first place.
Original post by 999tigger
Btw I disagree with goatherd. You shoudl get help though to maximise the effectiveness of any appeal. What you need to point out is that you have been infairly prejudiced.
Am sure ive already responded to a couple of other appeals for Bournemouth.
Again I would disagree with goatherd.
Im not so jaded about the fairness of appeals procedures plus once exhausted then you can take it to the OA. If their appeal was inadequate and defective, then all the better as its a further issue you cna raise with te OA.
.
Anyway o and book an appointment and see one of the SU advisors. G luck Too late at night for this.
Am sure ive already responded to a couple of other appeals for Bournemouth.
Again I would disagree with goatherd.
Im not so jaded about the fairness of appeals procedures plus once exhausted then you can take it to the OA. If their appeal was inadequate and defective, then all the better as its a further issue you cna raise with te OA.
.
Anyway o and book an appointment and see one of the SU advisors. G luck Too late at night for this.
I'll admit to being very jaded but I stand by everything I've said. This is the great thing about TSR though - the OP can get a wealth of replies with different experiences and opinions
Original post by Tom Bradford
I have proof, that he doesn't have a background or relatable study to my dissertation, to back up what I'm saying...
Don't get me wrong - I think you've been treated badly. I'm just less convinced that some of the grounds you want to appeal on will be taken as seriously as you'd like.
Do seek advice from the SU as the less jaded poster suggested
I wish you the best of luck if you decide to pursue this Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
I'll admit to being very jaded but I stand by everything I've said. This is the great thing about TSR though - the OP can get a wealth of replies with different experiences and opinions
Don't get me wrong - I think you've been treated badly. I'm just less convinced that some of the grounds you want to appeal on will be taken as seriously as you'd like.
Do seek advice from the SU as the less jaded poster suggested I wish you the best of luck if you decide to pursue this
Posted from TSR Mobile
Don't get me wrong - I think you've been treated badly. I'm just less convinced that some of the grounds you want to appeal on will be taken as seriously as you'd like.
Do seek advice from the SU as the less jaded poster suggested
I wish you the best of luck if you decide to pursue this Posted from TSR Mobile
Not really I just trust my own and what I know of appeal procedures. It stands I disagree with you and would encourage the OP to put in a formal application and if need be to take it to the OA. The OP has nothing to lose, although an effective appeal will require the assistance of someone comfy with appeal proedures. I have similar concerns about some of the grounds as the OP seems to think some of them have more merit than they do, but still enough there to give it a go.
I would be going for a re-mark.
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