Why is gender equality still not a reality in 2016?

@Sapphire321 Can you please explain how you think the wage gap is actually real? It confuses me that people believe it but I will continue to try and see their side of the story.

You only have to look at something as random as football managers - 99% male and they're paid incredibly high amounts. Used towards "wage gap" statistics, but has nothing to do with equality. Anyone can be a manager, getting the qualifications has no gender restriction.

I am a 21 year old woman and I would describe myself as a feminist going by the actual definition of feminism which is: the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of equality of the sexes. I am a feminist because I believe that men and women should be equal in society and that neither men nor women should be forced to conform to traditional gender roles NOT because I think that women should be superior to or have more privileges or better rights than men or because I think all men are sexist. I would also say, before people stereotype me, that I am straight, I do not hate men, I do take care of my appearance and I am not in any way the type of radical, extreme feminist that so many people now seem to think that all women who want equal rights are.

Anyway, to get to why I started this thread, I used to believe that men and women were fairly equal in modern society in the UK. However, as I’ve got older I’ve realised more and more that this is just not the case. In the workplace, there is still a 9.4% pay gap on average between men and women for full-time employment and when part-time employment is also included the gap extends to 19.2%. In the private sector specifically the pay gap for even for full-time employees was 17.2%! The TUC analysis of the ONS statistics showed that looking at the highest earners that gap widens even more reaching 54.9% for the top 2% of earners. The “glass ceiling” is even now nowhere near broken. There are many more men than women in top level jobs in politics, law, science, technology, engineering, academia, business… Just looking at politics alone, there is currently a lot in the media about how the next Prime Minister now has to be either Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom therefore it has to be (how shocking!) a woman. I know it’s only the second time in history so that’s a point of interest and it’s obviously great that there was no gender discrimination in this case that prevented us from getting another female Prime Minister but it still shouldn’t be portrayed by the media as such a novel and unusual idea. Even after the 2015 General Election, only 29% of MPs and a third of cabinet ministers are women. Women in politics seem to be judged by the media and society in general as much for how they look as for their policies and often face sexism from both the media and male colleagues. So, if we can’t get proper gender equality in politics which is both very public and obviously instrumental in trying to create equal rights then what hope is there for other professions.

It’s not just in the workplace that women aren’t treated equally either. Everyday sexism is present in schools, universities and in wider society. Worryingly, there is evidence that our generation, if anything, is getting worse. The rise of “Lad Culture” and “Rape Culture” which are particularly prevalent at universities is becoming a serious problem. Women are routinely objectified. Some men (I am definitely not saying all men) and even some women make sexist jokes and comments on a regular basis including joking about rape. Sexist posts and memes (again including jokes about rape) are often shared on social media… Why is it still seen as acceptable to joke that women should “get back to the kitchen” or worse?

As I said, I used to believe that men and women were now equal in the UK when I was still at school but scarily, knowing what I know now looking back on things that happened when I was at school, sexism was obvious there too. I had one male teacher in sixth form who used to patronisingly call all the girls “young lady” but never the boys “young man”. I had a female teacher who said women who worked and had children were irresponsible because they couldn’t be fully committed to their careers. Boys in my class joked that “all women should be prostitutes” but “*name of girl* wouldn’t get any customers”. In my year, boys and even occasionally girls made jokes that were either sexist or involved rape or both. Also, seeing some of the threads on TSR where (some) guys make sexist and misogynistic comments and then call girls “feminazis” if they dispute what’s been said makes me think that sexism certainly hasn’t gone, it hasn’t even decreased by all that much in some ways, it has just adapted into a modern version.

So, why is it that in 2016 women are still not treated as equal to men? And why do people say that feminism is now irrelevant when there is still so much inequality? In a country where women got the vote almost a century ago shouldn’t we have better equality in modern society than this?

I'm glad you have an open mind on it; I'll try and explain it the best I can. It is more accurately described as a pay or earnings gap. There is a 9.4% earnings gap between men and women working full-time and a 19.2% earnings gap when you include part-time employment. This is from the Office for National Statistics from 2015. In the private sector specifically the pay gap for even for full-time employees is 17.2%. It is widely acknowledged that the public sector has better gender equality than the private sector.

The earnings gap is NOT the gap between men and women doing the same job. It is the gap between the overall earnings of men and women working either full-time or full-time and part-time combined no matter what job they are in.

The earnings gap is affected by:
1. How there are less women working in better paid career paths such as science, technology, politics etc.
2. How women are more likely to be in lower paid/lower level jobs than men within the same career path/company.

My point is that more women should be encouraged to go into careers in science, business etc. and the women who do or already are should be treated as equal to the men rather than being disadvantaged by their gender. It also shouldn't be so much easier for men to get promoted to top level jobs.

This would be helped if there wasn't discrimination against women particularly to do with having children. In a study, approximately 40% of manager admitted they are less inclined to hire young women who may have children or women who already have children even though this is actually illegal discrimination. This is why women are so often asked about relationships/marriage and children in job interviews. Women are also often not treated fairly if they do work at a company and then go on maternity leave. In UK society, women are generally expected to have children and if they don't they are often told they are "unnatural" or always asked why they don't. If women do have children then they are almost always expected to do the majority of the childcare and housework even when working full-time or to take part-time jobs in order to do that or even not work at all. If they don't they are often told they are bad mothers. This all prevents women from getting to top level jobs and focusing on their careers in the same way that men can. In my opinion, there should be more and better paid paternity leave so that the responsibility for a new baby can be shared between a couple. The man and the woman should do equal amounts of childcare and housework as the child grows up unless one or other of them wants to do more of course. If a women wants to do the majority of the childcare/work part-time/be a stay at home mother then that's fine; it's about having the choice rather than being expected to do it.

Yes, it is probably unlikely that there will be many female managers of male football teams. This is partly to do with equality though because male football players are paid much more and held in much higher regard around the world than female football players and it would definitely make sense to have female manager of a female football team. As far as I can see, there is no reason why women's football should be any less interesting to watch etc. Also, it's not just confined to football. There are much less women than men in top level jobs in science, technology, engineering, business, law, politics, academia, financial services/banking... The list is endless.

Sorry for the essay haha! I hope it's been helpful.

In fact, if you did some research on the Cambridge admission statistics, a much much higher percentage of females that apply get into STEM courses, then males.

This is not true.

It's because of the same reason males are better at chess. In IQ tests, women often get average-ish results, while men get the highs and the lows. Skills associated with higher IQs (when judged by the tests) are the same skills that are used in maths and science, and chess!

3. Yes, it is illegal but unfortunately it still can happen. Employers can get round it and discrimination is difficult to prove.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jwebb/2016/03/31/women-are-still-paid-less-than-men-even-in-the-same-job/#154a6afd16ee
Approximately 40% of managers admit that they are less inclined to hire women who are of child bearing age or who already have children although that is also technically illegal. I don't accept that women are just less hard working and always leave earlier; that must just be down to the specific people that work at your parents' accounting firm. Although, this again could be down to how women most often have the primary responsibility for childcare.

IQ tests have been discredited. ( 1950s I believe - Prof. Brian Simon et al ). IQ doesn't govern your ability to be educated. Education increases your IQ.

This is not true.

A teacher at my school called the girls "princess" , "love" , "sweetie" he commented on one girls clothes size saying she'd be a good model. He never did to the boys.
My dad's colleague is a working mother who is set to be really high up in the company. The amount of s*** she's faced for being a woman, it's taken her many more years than it should've done to get her to this stage. Men have many sexist jokes to her throughout her career and she's missed out on promotions because of it. Don't tell me women don't try to get good careers and that it's their own fault that there's a pay gap.
Growing up the girls were encouraged to do art or dance and the boys were encouraged to love science and maths. Girls who were good at maths were told they are good, "for a girl."
A boy in my year would say women are only good for two things, cooking and babies. The teacher would laugh.
At the age of 11 my friends and I would walk down the street and be told "show us your t*** " we were 11, we barely had any and yet we were already being sexualised.
It's so sad to see the comments on this post blatantly refuse to believe there is inequality. Of course there is inequality, it's just more subtle that you think.

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Feminism only has a definition defined by the groups actions. It is how it represents itself. It doesn't have a 'holy text' or any fixed rules by which to be held accountable and is therefore a fluid movement defined by its actions. There are no tenets and equality is a vague term, does it mean of opportunity or of outcome and how is it defined? Is exactly 50/50 equality if it ignores meritocracy, how is that in any way fair? Also how are men and women forced to adhere to gender roles, any pressure to do so is self enforced based off - generally - efficacy of self image, there is every opportunity just to do whatever you want but people choose not to. For whatever reasons these choices are made they are still fundamentally a choice.

Is the gap for the same job? The equal pay act would suggest not. A disparity by choice - the only remaining factor - is irrelevant. If women were cheaper for the same jobs with the same experience and ability then they would make up the majority of the work force for economic reasons. Women are outperforming men in academia and in the jobs market ages 18-22 however this is a result of one causing the other (although it should be noted when it was the other way around it was sexism now it isnt because reasons)

Lad culture is a dismissive term for boys behaving as boys are biologically conditioned to do so and 'rape culture' is patently false. If rape was accepted then why does it carry massively harsh punishments, is universally condemned as a horrific crime in the western world (often considered worse than murder) - if it was a culturally accepted action why would said culture condemn it and punish it? That's not how acceptance works.

Presumed offence by 'young lady' and jokes that involve shock value for humour are not examples of sexism. Most humour is dark because laughing about that which shouldnt be said, the taboo, is a common social construct - comedy pushed boundaries and this is a reflection of that as people say what they know shouldn't be said which is why its funny. Also girls are misogynist or sexist for making these jokes, as in women hate women or discriminate against women? Sounds a bit off key when examined, why on earth would a group hate their own group. Men face the exact same thing, when that woman cut off her mans penis because he cheated it was laughed about on national TV, fat men get fat jokes all the time, skinny men get skinny jokes, posh people get posh jokes, poor people get poor jokes etc etc. Everything that makes a person individual is also free to be mocked by those not possessing the same characteristic, in order to laugh in general you need to be able to laugh at yourself and this is the root of such comments. I fail to see how comments directed indiscriminately form a basis for sexism or arguments thereof or why dark humour inherently is opposed to women.

What equality would you advocate? Equality of choice has been granted, equality of opportunity is there. Its nobody's responsibility but your own to create the outcome.

Thank you for that, I see your point. My response (I like to challenge ideas before mindlessly accepting them):

Men footballers have a lot more flair and skill than women footballers - this is widely accepted by all true football fans.
Additionally, in the past, I'm assuming due to natural interests (boys liking football more than girls, would be silly to pretend this isn't true) and maybe even the sexism that used to be around, mens football would have gotten a ton more funding, due to basic supply and demand. Therefore mens football is far beyond women's in terms of funding anyway. It would take an unjust injection of cash into women's football to increase their wages.

Also I don't get the idea of forcing women into STEM fields. Every single person I have spoken to, has had lots of thought about what cources they wanted to do, and told me about their passions. At no point was a certain gender stopped from studying a certain course. In fact, if you did some research on the Cambridge admission statistics, a much much higher percentage of females that apply get into STEM courses, then males. This, I believe, is an act of anti-equality - choosing someone based on their gender not their credentials.

No, women take more time of, this is a fact. Therefore from a business point of view, it is optimal to choose someone who will give you more for your money.

I'm guessing you've never studied economics - nothing hee is gender driven, it's all explained by basic economics. I was hoping you'd be able to persuade me otherwise, I've always wondered that it can't just be a coincidence that so many people fall for the wage gap myth.

Yes it is. You don't even need to do the research to show it too - it's obvious. Course numbers tend towards 50:50 female male, with slightly more males where necessary, yet around 90% of applications are males. Sexism - choosing females to fill a quota purely based on their gender.

Is Serena Williams much worse at tennis than Andy Murray just because she's a woman?

Feminism is just first world terrorism. Making up lies, to make young people feel like victims, so that they cause harm to others.

Yes. In fact women should play more sets in grand slams just like the men, or they should get paid less. That's the only way to make it completely fair in tennis.

Is x much worse at y just because she is female? "Yes". I give up, honestly some people on here...

Is x much worse at y just because she is female? "Yes". I give up, honestly some people on here...