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Man stabs 4 women for dressing immodestly in France

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Original post by Good bloke
Your reply ignored my original post in its entirety, matey. Are you afraid to answer it?


Why the inconsistencies Good bloke? Are you afraid to answer it?
Original post by swiss_cheese
"get a therapist"? damn, that was disappointing...

A quick glance of the OP's posting history will show you his negative predisposition towards Islam. Therefore it is a safe assumption that this news story was posted solely on the basis of the possibility that it is linked to Islam, but the fact that he highlighted the Arab name as the most important detail means that he is racist.

Don't pretend that this guy posted this for any other reason than to stir up religious hate speech, I know who the regular Islam-bashers are.


How the actual hell is it racist and Islamophobic oh my god. OP never mentioned Islam. You were the one who brought it in.

Original post by BaconandSauce
Is your 'footstool' alarm bell not ringing here :smile:



I can't even with this idiot.
[QUOTE=MrsSheldonCooper;66508610]The case in Bangladesh was that it was 2 weeks ago and it's a country who has a completely different religion and culture to us. While it is tragic that it happened, the case in France is something that's more worrying because they've been our allies for years, we share a similar culture and it's closer to us.

But nooooo apparently OP mentioning that the stabber was called Mohamed makes him "racist" and Islamophobic. You have warped logic and I suggest you get a therapist.

Pain and suffering no matter what, where or whatever other reasons is pain and suffering, all these criticisms with no solutions and your facetious attitude adds to the problem.

I hope you realise that this terrorist organisation is more political than religious. The west regards itself as a bastion for all creeds, races etcetera so it doesn't matter if Bangladesh has different culture from us.
Original post by dingleberry jam
Why the inconsistencies Good bloke? Are you afraid to answer it?


I don't know what you are wittering about. I read the evidence yesterday and drew my conclusion from the words of the perpetrator himself, as reported. Of course, if the report is a lie then it is a lie.
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
How the actual hell is it racist and Islamophobic oh my god. OP never mentioned Islam. You were the one who brought it in.




I can't even with this idiot.


As I explained, he immediately linked the Arab name to Islamic terrorism with no evidence that it was religiously motivated, that is racist against Arabs. If the name was "John Smith" or something British, he would not have posted it - that is practically certain, given his posting history.

Is it that hard to comprehend? And go ahead rally your adorable supporters, BaconAndSauce who thinks that Sharia Law = hand chopping and throwing gays off roofs.
Original post by Good bloke
I don't know what you are wittering about. I read the evidence yesterday and drew my conclusion from the words of the perpetrator himself, as reported. Of course, if the report is a lie then it is a lie.


:rolleyes: You know exactly what I'm talking about, wriggle, wriggle. Come on if it's not racism that's driving the clear bias you've shown between this and the Gordon Brown stuff what is it?
Original post by swiss_cheese
As I explained, he immediately linked the Arab name to Islamic terrorism with no evidence that it was religiously motivated, that is racist against Arabs.

Is it that hard to explain? And go ahead rally your adorable supporters, BaconAndSauce who thinks that Sharia Law = hand chopping and throwing gays off roofs.


Of course it was religiously motivated! Why don't you read up on Muslim preachers and what they say about women?

Considering homosexuality is a crime under Islamic law it's not that hard to believe that gays go through that. Read up on Sharia Law if you're capable enough to. I don't know why you're defending some of the most backward and disgusting set of rules ever set from a religion but I hope the ISOC give you a medal for it.
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
Of course it was religiously motivated! Why don't you read up on Muslim preachers and what they say about women?

Considering homosexuality is a crime under Islamic law it's not that hard to believe that gays go through that. Read up on Sharia Law if you're capable enough to. I don't know why you're defending some of the most backward and disgusting set of rules ever set from a religion but I hope the ISOC give you a medal for it.


Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't - but the point is, this guy saw the Arab name and instantly linked it to terrorism, which is racist.

And Sharia Law literally translates to "religious law", so you'd have to be a lot more specific.

Furthermore my point which I have been making for so long is that religion did not motivate this person to stab three people. It definitely has a role, and it is the veil behind which he is justifying his actions, but these people don't just wake up one day and decide to kill in the name of Islam. So you lot can stop gallivanting around blaming Islam for all of the problems when it is clearly a 1500 year old scripture which is more open to interpretation than ever before, and start blaming the disgusting murderers who warp it to justify their actions. Attacking the ideology as if it is any different to Christianity in the regard of brutality is shameful, you would not be criticising Islam to nearly the same extent if terrorists didn't purport to carry out attacks in its name. Terrorists kill more Muslims than any other group of people, anyone studying this can clearly see that these people don't give a **** about islam or Muslims, they're just broken people who have become radicalised for the various reasons listed earlier.

On the other hand, lets assume you're right, and you are to an extent. Islam is violent, barbaric, just like many religions. But do you think gallivanting around spamming "religion of peace" and being hateful towards Islam is the solution? Do you think your words of wisdom have made ANY of these Muslims, who have lived under their government's form of Sharia Law their entire lives, who know nothing other than Islamic government, change their minds? Its similar to someone coming over here and criticising democracy, its our idea of the best form of government and it is all that many of us have lived under. You can go ahead and say "but democracy doesn't promote killing gays, etc..." but there are so many things which can also be criticised about it, but the underlying point is that these people are not going to suddenly wake up and realise Islam is violent, therefore your constant criticisms of Islam towards some of these people are falling on deaf ears, making Muslims feel segregated and contributing towards the influx of hatred which motivates them to become radicalised.
Its the same rhetoric in Brexit, you simply have no leniency to accept a perspective that condemns your own, and immediately antagonising the Muslim community by labelling them as Islamic terrorists at every sight of an Arab name is doing more harm than good. Go ahead and say I'm an apologist, but all religion is disgusting to me, its horrible that someone should get a better afterlife for praying to a God or doing xyz every day, but religion isn't going to magically disappear overnight, therefore constantly, relentlessly criticising it, in any form, is pointless. Once the fundamental criticisms have been made vocal, thats fine, but this perpetual sequence of criticising Islam again and again and again when clearly Islam is only a tiny piece to a much bigger puzzle, this is damaging and I have no doubt that some of the recent terror attacks were motivated partially by hatred towards Islam.
Original post by swiss_cheese
Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't - but the point is, this guy saw the Arab name and instantly linked it to terrorism, which is racist.

And Sharia Law literally translates to "religious law", so you'd have to be a lot more specific.

Furthermore my point which I have been making for so long is that religion did not motivate this person to stab three people. It definitely has a role, and it is the veil behind which he is justifying his actions, but these people don't just wake up one day and decide to kill in the name of Islam. So you lot can stop gallivanting around blaming Islam for all of the problems when it is clearly a 1500 year old scripture which is more open to interpretation than ever before, and start blaming the disgusting murderers who warp it to justify their actions. Attacking the ideology as if it is any different to Christianity in the regard of brutality is shameful, you would not be criticising Islam to nearly the same extent if terrorists didn't purport to carry out attacks in its name. Terrorists kill more Muslims than any other group of people, anyone studying this can clearly see that these people don't give a **** about islam or Muslims, they're just broken people who have become radicalised for the various reasons listed earlier.

On the other hand, lets assume you're right, and you are to an extent. Islam is violent, barbaric, just like many religions. But do you think gallivanting around spamming "religion of peace" and being hateful towards Islam is the solution? Do you think your words of wisdom have made ANY of these Muslims, who have lived under their government's form of Sharia Law their entire lives, who know nothing other than Islamic government, change their minds? Its similar to someone coming over here and criticising democracy, its our idea of the best form of government and it is all that many of us have lived under. You can go ahead and say "but democracy doesn't promote killing gays, etc..." but there are so many things which can also be criticised about it, but the underlying point is that these people are not going to suddenly wake up and realise Islam is violent, therefore your constant criticisms of Islam towards some of these people are falling on deaf ears, making Muslims feel segregated and contributing towards the influx of hatred which motivates them to become radicalised.
Its the same rhetoric in Brexit, you simply have no leniency to accept a perspective that condemns your own, and immediately antagonising the Muslim community by labelling them as Islamic terrorists at every sight of an Arab name is doing more harm than good. Go ahead and say I'm an apologist, but all religion is disgusting to me, its horrible that someone should get a better afterlife for praying to a God or doing xyz every day, but religion isn't going to magically disappear overnight, therefore constantly, relentlessly criticising it, in any form, is pointless. Once the fundamental criticisms have been made vocal, thats fine, but this perpetual sequence of criticising Islam again and again and again when clearly Islam is only a tiny piece to a much bigger puzzle, this is damaging and I have no doubt that some of the recent terror attacks were motivated partially by hatred towards Islam.


Do you have any stats that back this up? You're probably going to mention Bangladesh but I'm referring to other ones too.

The guy was from Morocco. If you look it up, only 20% of women over 25 have a secondary education and out of 136, Morocco comes 129th in terms of treating women equally. Considering this bastard came from Morocco, it's fair to assume that both religion and culture had to do with it.

I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously when you say that criticism of Islam leads to radicalisation. Why should we have to tiptoe around them? I can easy counter your argument and say that gay people have been more than criticised (tortured and killed) MUCH more than Muslims have over the centuries. I haven't heard of any gay person going around killing people in the name of homosexuality.
Being a rational critic is okay. Nothing wrong with civilised discussions critique whatever ideology.

However, some of you here step into the area that goes so far as purely hate; never have I seen anyone in an intelligent discussion regard an ideology or what be it as "disgusing" or whatever used.

This hate creates a vacuum that alienates certain members of the Muslim community making them more susceptible to extemism.

Swiss Cheese is somewhat correct.

Abandon your pseudo intelligence and educate yourself on root causes. I myself don't agree with any organised religion but we are talking about terrorism which is political.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
Do you have any stats that back this up? You're probably going to mention Bangladesh but I'm referring to other ones too.The guy was from Morocco. If you look it up, only 20% of women over 25 have a secondary education and out of 136, Morocco comes 129th in terms of treating women equally. Considering this bastard came from Morocco, it's fair to assume that both religion and culture had to do with it. I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously when you say that criticism of Islam leads to radicalisation. Why should we have to tiptoe around them? I can easy counter your argument and say that gay people have been more than criticised (tortured and killed) MUCH more than Muslims have over the centuries. I haven't heard of any gay person going around killing people in the name of homosexuality.


I accept that Islam is unfair to women, but my argument is about terrorism, not some inequality within Islamic communities. Criticism of Islam makes Muslims feel like they are hated by the west, it makes them segregate themselves and it therefore increases the chances of them becoming radicalised. Say "I'm sorry but" or "I can't believe" all you want, but that is not reinforcing anything.

Comparing gays to Islam is nonsensical. Homosexuality is not an ideology, its not a movement under which a massive group of people unite and share beliefs, it is starting to emerge as a community nowadays but in terms of your argument you are clearly talking about the past and persecution in recent history. Attacking someone's sexuality is not the same as attacking someone's and their entire family's beliefs and their government and in some cases, the only form of government that they know to be true. This ties into my democracy argument before, if someone attacks democracy, you go rabid and call them fascist/communist and start attacking them back - when in reality, democracy has left many values behind. The same applies with Islam, these people see Islam as their perfect form of government, so criticising it is equivalent to some foreigner criticising democracy. But the point is, homosexuality is not a political ideology under which many people unite, nor has it got history of prophets, empires and wars - its newly emerging as a community, therefore its pretty dumb to ponder why gays haven't retaliated in mass violence.

And beyond this yet, the media is going to need some substantial proof to suggest that the motivation was because of homphobia. We could easily have had many homosexual serial killers or attackers in the last few years, but the negatively predisposed and offensive media tends to shove any non-Muslim / non-black killing as under mental illness based on some vague psychiatric reports from decades beforehand. When it comes to Arabs committing atrocities, the media immediately ignites in pinpointing Islam as the factor to blame. Homophobia is a less robust motive to write about, and even further still, homosexuality has been developing more thoroughly in recent years in the west. The west is a pretty safe place nowadays (compared to before) for this sort of thing, as it is tolerated. You don't have the desperate conditions, corrupt regimes and instability present in the Middle East - which catalyses this sort of violence. Because quite obviously more violence around you tends to make you desensitised to violence and therefore in some cases, more willing to commit violence.
Original post by SterlingArcher

This hate creates a vacuum that alienates certain members of the Muslim community making them more susceptible to extemism.


There are other communities in the UK who experience criticism of their faith without resorting to mindless violence in its name.

But this is just a case of 'any excuse will do'
Original post by BaconandSauce
There are other communities in the UK who experience criticism of their faith without resorting to mindless violence in its name.

But this is just a case of 'any excuse will do'


Isn't it truly astonishing, the lengths some people will go to to explain away and justify Islamic atrocities? "Terrorism has no religion, terrorism has nothing to do with Islam, but if you criticise Islam some Muslims will have no choice but to become violent extremists." Absolutely pathetic.
Original post by Achaea
Isn't it truly astonishing, the lengths some people will go to to explain away and justify Islamic atrocities? "Terrorism has no religion, terrorism has nothing to do with Islam, but if you criticise Islam some Muslims will have no choice but to become violent extremists." Absolutely pathetic.


It is a rather odd thing

but shows the weakness of the argument when we compare this 'issue' with other communities in the UK
[QUOTE=BaconandSauce;66509620]There are other communities in the UK who experience criticism of their faith without resorting to mindless violence in its name.

But this is just a case of 'any excuse will do'

Is it really?

Are we forgetting what has happened in the ME and whose fault it is?

The "destruction" of the ME is due to western intervionism and for the sake of capitalism, creating power vacuums by organising coups, then bombing your homelands leads to a radicalisation of certain groups. Look at the Irish and how the IRA felt about England.

Imams and other Islamic scholars partake in intelligent discussion a lot but I don't see them killing people either.

For you, this is an attempt at deflecting real problems.
Original post by BaconandSauce
It is a rather odd thing

but shows the weakness of the argument when we compare this 'issue' with other communities in the UK


"If you show hatred towards any aspects of Tory policy, some Tories will have no choice but to become violent extremists!" "If you hate any aspects of feminism, feminists will become violent extremists!" LOL.

It really is the bigotry of low expectations. These people think they're being so terribly tolerant and progressive, but in reality think that some/many Muslims cannot be expected not to be violent if any aspect of their ideology is criticised.
[QUOTE=Achaea;66509706]Isn't it truly astonishing, the lengths some people will go to to explain away and justify Islamic atrocities? "Terrorism has no religion, terrorism has nothing to do with Islam, but if you criticise Islam some Muslims will have no choice but to become violent extremists." Absolutely pathetic.

Slyly putting words into my mouth, congratulations.

It's expected of people on this particular site; there is a certain lack of common sense and the ability to use critical thinking.

Your posts display this. Terrorism is largely political with the foundations of manipulating religious text to benefit you.

How do you think Europeans were able to justify slavery with the Bible?
Original post by SterlingArcher
Is it really?

Are we forgetting what has happened in the ME and whose fault it is?

The "destruction" of the ME is due to western intervionism and for the sake of capitalism, creating power vacuums by organising coups, then bombing your homelands leads to a radicalisation of certain groups. Look at the Irish and how the IRA felt about England.

Imams and other Islamic scholars partake in intelligent discussion a lot but I don't see them killing people either.

For you, this is an attempt at deflecting real problems.


Terrorism is the fault of terrorists. It's interesting that you think only white western people have agency though and that brown middle eastern people cannot be held responsible for their own actions.

Original post by SterlingArcher
Slyly putting words into my mouth, congratulations.

It's expected of people on this particular site; there is a certain lack of common sense and the ability to use critical thinking.

Your posts display this. Terrorism is largely political with the foundations of manipulating religious text to benefit you.

How do you think Europeans were able to justify slavery with the Bible?


Ah, the usual whataboutery; I wondered when we'd see that. Typical regressive left tactic, to splutter 'bu buh but what about teh Christianz?'
Original post by SterlingArcher
Is it really?



Yes.

Sectarian violence has existed in the middle east since the birth of islam.

Hatred of the other has been a part of this violence for about the same time.

all we are seeing now is the continuation of a centuries old conflict and people have forgotten the past and allowed this to fester rather than doing as we should do and deal with the problem in a manner that would once and for all end it.
[QUOTE=Achaea;66509942]Terrorism is the fault of terrorists. It's interesting that you think only white western people have agency though and that brown middle eastern people cannot be held responsible for their own actions.



Ah, the usual whataboutery; I wondered when we'd see that. Typical regressive left tactic, to splutter 'bu buh but what about teh Christianz?'

This is nothing about white or brown people but foreign policy that has worked against the people of the ME. Of course, I'm not saying terrorists aren't responsible - my argument is of the root causes which you seem to be completely unable to see.

The "whataboutery" was started by your fellow poster and you. "What about other communities?"

Don't be a hypocite my friend.

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