"'Americanism, Not Globalism"

Most of the time, the US has acted entirely in what the elite of the US (very large capitalists) decide is in their 'interests' (eg, the interests of the plutocrats, not the majority of American people, although sometimes they superficially coincide) - when they appear to take on roles like 'global policeman', these are more to do with defending those business interests than anything else. Therefore, for example, the US has supported many brutal dictatorships since the end of WW2, all the time claiming it is the champion of democracy, one of the most cynical propaganda lines it used to spout. (Too many people are wise to this one for them to bother much with it now.)

Out of interest how would you guys on the left react to a US which took no real part in world affairs.

With an expansionist Russia and ISIS do you not feel that the result would be even worse than now.

It's nothing to do with stupidity or otherwise. The space race was an entirely superficial way of exhibiting a non-existent Soviet 'superiority' into which the USSR ploughed huge resources. They were able to make progress partly because a lot of captured German rocket programme people were taken to Russia to work on the project. Kruschev's spokesman, famously, when asked why Russia were ahead. said "our Germans are better than your Germans". The US had different aims - mainly the military use of rockets. They only came into the race when the Soviets made huge propaganda of the luckily successful orbits of Sputnik and Gagarin (both were nearly disasters as Soviet space technology was decidedly shambolic at the time - their chief engineer, Korolev, worked miracles, when he wasn't miserably serving in the Gulag system), but once they did come into the race, US resources soon by-passed the low quality Soviet offerings.

Quoted from Donald Trump's speech during the RNC convention. *I'd like to know from TSR. *Do you think it is appropriate for American citizens to put American interests above global interests when they differ? *I believe this explains much of the American indignation towards the international community. *The average citizens feel that we as a country, have capitulated and appeased the international community with little appreciation in return. *Is it reasonable for U.S. citizens to expect their government to use the full brunt of its power to support the interests of its populace, even when doing so is contrary to a global agenda? *

Well, since the end of World War II, we Americans have largely been responsible for keeping the peace and looking out for Western interests. Europeans no longer have the stomach for war and have largely allowed themselves to become (I tried and failed to think of a nicer way to say this) weak-hearted and weak-minded socialists in the name of peace and anti-nationalism. The UK is somewhat less like this (they seem to have a little pride left at least), but continental Europe is undeniably this way.

A lot of Americans have been frustrated at being called neo-Imperialists and criticized for policing the world by countries that essentially live under US protection and probably don't even have the means or willingness to defend themselves. We spend a disproportionate amount of our budget protecting other countries and attempting to maintain a global balance of power.

However, Obama's reign is a good example of what happens when the US doesn't lead the world or maintain a balance of power. We gave up on the Middle East, pulled our troops out, and let everything destabilize. ISIS formed... and now Europe is on the verge of being conquered. One can argue we never should have been in Iraq in the first place, but it's undeniable that pulling out after destroying the government and leaving a power vacuum was beyond stupid.

I think that a nation like the US has to worry about the whole globe simply because ambitious states like China, Russia, and now ISIS exist. Someone has to fight these (proxy) wars and do the dirty work to curb their influence and expansion. If we don't strive to maintain a balance of power, and keep super states from getting ever more territory and influence, then we will eventually fall as well.

The problem is that, ultimately, what happens in the world can affect the United States and our allies, so we end up having to intervene in world affairs to protect our own interests. Focusing entirely on domestic affairs and cutting military strength proves to be short-sighted, as the Obama years have shown us. Therefore, the US must intervene to protect its own interests and those of its Western allies that share common enemies in order to keep those enemies from gaining too much power.

A lot of Americans would probably love to go back to the Monroe Doctrine, but isolationism isn't an option anymore.

You're either involved and have a say, or you're not and you don't.

I don't think Americans will accept the latter part that well, they've got too used to having the pre-eminent voice in the world.

Do you really want to give up that "Leader of The Free World" title?

As an American, I believe that my country has wallowed in a sense that we are unique, in particular because of our "founding principles". We think that our ideas are better, less self-interested than those from others, and worthy of emulation by everyone. A lot of this was heightened by the strange religious movements (evangelicalism) that grew in large part because of our isolation and lack of involvement in the world in the 19C - God had ordained it, and our growing industrial power proved our righteousness. It is largely nonsense, of course, but not entirely - to a large extent, we were a force for the good in the 20C. When we erred, as we did in Vietnam and Iraq, the failure and catastrophe were as out of proportion as our conception of ourselves and our destiny.

Unfortunately, it is natural for Americans to imagine that we can go forward on our own way and that we have a right to impose our ideas on others, all the while seriously underestimating the costs. Trump represents an extreme and wholly ignorant version of all this. He sees no nuance, knows little history, and thinks in terms of zero-sum real estate deals - there is no room for ambiguity or goals that do not equate with profit, i.e. he has no understanding of diplomacy or outcomes that are not clear "winners".

If he is elected, it will only hasten America's decline, which is relative to the other powers that are necessarily rising with their own industrializations. I am deeply ashamed of him and fear the consequences in the (still unlikely) event of his election.

Not another jumped-up self-righteous Yank! Why?
Ok so war. Lets think on war. Now really where were you when we needed you most? When the Nazis were flying over to the UK nightly to drop bombs and attack airfields? During the battle of Britain where were you? Sitting at home is the US laughing. Have you ever known the fear of knowing an enemy can come over your head any second drop a bomb and kill you in your own home? No. America has never truly been in a state where this happened especially not on a nightly basis. As for keeping peace afterwards? If by that you mean sabre rattling and threatening anything that claimed to be communist, then yes what a great country you are. Lets think on Vietnam where the Americans invaded a country senselessly and attacked local women even raped them, smoked local drugs. What about the cold war? Peace? Yeah. Great job America. Notice how the EU were too civilised to invade a country and rape half their women and smoke pot all day pretending to be fighting communism? Only a country as arrogant as America can see that as a victory.

Live under US protection? You really are more jumped up than I could've believed possible. You seem to believe that you are above the UN, who BTW are far stronger than you, UN v US there is no contest. It is the UN who keep peace-keepers on the ground in conflict zones. As for protecting us? Where are you now the terrorists are striking across the EU. Ah yes " We will stand with you " you shout then hike your borders up and isolate yourself fro the rest of the world. You're disillusioned. You are hiding from the enemy not protecting us from them! As for spending money protecting us? Your budget goes on building bases on our land so you can attack any enemy of yours before they reach you you should be grateful we allow you the privilege.

Obama tried to show America the light at the end of the tunnel, he tried to show you didn't have to be some bullying controlling superpower.You pulled out because of Obama. No my friend you pulled out because your soldiers were being beaten thoroughly and you didn't stand a chance. As for Europe being on the verge of being conquered you really are a moron if you believe that. That is the equivalent to saying that terrorists flattened the US in the 11/9 attacks. You even say yourself you shouldn't have been there in the first place and you left a power void... so you created the problem of ISIS so you could step in a pretend to be some big friend aiding the EU.

America exists to stop super states... that much is true now the reason they do that though is to stop anyone daring to gain as much power as they themselves have. The US have some desire to constantly be in control of everyone and everything, but they no right and as Iraq is evidence they just make things worse. They were better when they were a colony. We need you to fight the proxy wars again like erm.... VIETNAM! Oh hang on shall we remind ourselves what happened in Vietnam? You landed abused the locals, and 'kept communism at bay' whilst getting mauled by weapons that are naive compared to your assault rifles and tanks etc. then you had to admit defeat and pull out of there too, and your long term goal fell flat on its face within 2 years.

Oddly enough what happens in the world also affects us The Brits, the Europeans in fact every other country on this planet. What gives America the right to lord it over us? Did you notice any of us Europeans or perhaps more specifically Brits in Vietnam, oh no! No we did not do a thing because it was not our place to intervene and it was not yours either, I'd have thought you learnt your lesson from that, but no America is still king of the world. Isn't it odd how you prevented the communists from gaining an extra half a country of communism in Vietnam and look how it turned out, within a few years it had fallen. No the US is trying and failing , to rule the world. That is why people are sick of you.

Just remind me as you are obviously our saviours and we are ever in debt to you who was it who escorted the passive aggressive Russian bombers from our coast recently... oh that was us the UK, defending ourselves. Just remind us why it took you half the war to actually bother to offer us any support, not once but twice? Remind me again how big the American empire was at its height?

My point is every country has its own right to respect and the right not to be told what to do or be controlled or manipulated by the US. You the 'amazing restorers of balance in this world' are nothing but arrogant jumped up big-headed fools and morons. You deserve Trump and Clinton to turn your state back into the hovel it was before we rescued you in the first place when we civilised you and made you part of our empire.

Not another jumped-up self-righteous Yank! Why?
Ok so war. Lets think on war. Now really where were you when we needed you most? When the Nazis were flying over to the UK nightly to drop bombs and attack airfields? During the battle of Britain where were you? Sitting at home is the US laughing. Have you ever known the fear of knowing an enemy can come over your head any second drop a bomb and kill you in your own home? No.

America has never truly been in a state where this happened especially not on a nightly basis. As for keeping peace afterwards? If by that you mean sabre rattling and threatening anything that claimed to be communist, then yes what a great country you are. Lets think on Vietnam where the Americans invaded a country senselessly and attacked local women even raped them, smoked local drugs. What about the cold war? Peace? Yeah. Great job America. Notice how the EU were too civilised to invade a country and rape half their women and smoke pot all day pretending to be fighting communism? Only a country as arrogant as America can see that as a victory.

Live under US protection? You really are more jumped up than I could've believed possible. You seem to believe that you are above the UN, who BTW are far stronger than you, UN v US there is no contest. It is the UN who keep peace-keepers on the ground in conflict zones. As for protecting us? Where are you now the terrorists are striking across the EU. Ah yes " We will stand with you " you shout then hike your borders up and isolate yourself fro the rest of the world. You're disillusioned. You are hiding from the enemy not protecting us from them! As for spending money protecting us? Your budget goes on building bases on our land so you can attack any enemy of yours before they reach you you should be grateful we allow you the privilege.

Obama tried to show America the light at the end of the tunnel, he tried to show you didn't have to be some bullying controlling superpower.You pulled out because of Obama. No my friend you pulled out because your soldiers were being beaten thoroughly and you didn't stand a chance. As for Europe being on the verge of being conquered you really are a moron if you believe that. That is the equivalent to saying that terrorists flattened the US in the 11/9 attacks. You even say yourself you shouldn't have been there in the first place and you left a power void... so you created the problem of ISIS so you could step in a pretend to be some big friend aiding the EU.

America exists to stop super states... that much is true now the reason they do that though is to stop anyone daring to gain as much power as they themselves have. The US have some desire to constantly be in control of everyone and everything, but they no right and as Iraq is evidence they just make things worse. They were better when they were a colony. We need you to fight the proxy wars again like erm.... VIETNAM! Oh hang on shall we remind ourselves what happened in Vietnam? You landed abused the locals, and 'kept communism at bay' whilst getting mauled by weapons that are naive compared to your assault rifles and tanks etc. then you had to admit defeat and pull out of there too, and your long term goal fell flat on its face within 2 years.

Oddly enough what happens in the world also affects us The Brits, the Europeans in fact every other country on this planet. What gives America the right to lord it over us? Did you notice any of us Europeans or perhaps more specifically Brits in Vietnam, oh no! No we did not do a thing because it was not our place to intervene and it was not yours either, I'd have thought you learnt your lesson from that, but no America is still king of the world. Isn't it odd how you prevented the communists from gaining an extra half a country of communism in Vietnam and look how it turned out, within a few years it had fallen. No the US is trying and failing , to rule the world. That is why people are sick of you.

Just remind me as you are obviously our saviours and we are ever in debt to you who was it who escorted the passive aggressive Russian bombers from our coast recently... oh that was us the UK, defending ourselves. Just remind us why it took you half the war to actually bother to offer us any support, not once but twice? Remind me again how big the American empire was at its height?

My point is every country has its own right to respect and the right not to be told what to do or be controlled or manipulated by the US. You the 'amazing restorers of balance in this world' are nothing but arrogant jumped up big-headed fools and morons. You deserve Trump and Clinton to turn your state back into the hovel it was before we rescued you in the first place when we civilised you and made you part of our empire.

Well, since the end of World War II, we Americans have largely been responsible for keeping the peace and looking out for Western interests. Europeans no longer have the stomach for war and have largely allowed themselves to become (I tried and failed to think of a nicer way to say this) weak-hearted and weak-minded socialists in the name of peace and anti-nationalism. The UK is somewhat less like this (they seem to have a little pride left at least), but continental Europe is undeniably this way.

A lot of Americans have been frustrated at being called neo-Imperialists and criticized for policing the world by countries that essentially live under US protection and probably don't even have the means or willingness to defend themselves. We spend a disproportionate amount of our budget protecting other countries and attempting to maintain a global balance of power.

However, Obama's reign is a good example of what happens when the US doesn't lead the world or maintain a balance of power. We gave up on the Middle East, pulled our troops out, and let everything destabilize. ISIS formed... and now Europe is on the verge of being conquered. One can argue we never should have been in Iraq in the first place, but it's undeniable that pulling out after destroying the government and leaving a power vacuum was beyond stupid.

I think that a nation like the US has to worry about the whole globe simply because ambitious states like China, Russia, and now ISIS exist. Someone has to fight these (proxy) wars and do the dirty work to curb their influence and expansion. If we don't strive to maintain a balance of power, and keep super states from getting ever more territory and influence, then we will eventually fall as well.

The problem is that, ultimately, what happens in the world can affect the United States and our allies, so we end up having to intervene in world affairs to protect our own interests. Focusing entirely on domestic affairs and cutting military strength proves to be short-sighted, as the Obama years have shown us. Therefore, the US must intervene to protect its own interests and those of its Western allies that share common enemies in order to keep those enemies from gaining too much power.

A lot of Americans would probably love to go back to the Monroe Doctrine, but isolationism isn't an option anymore.

That's apologism.

Regardless of how it happened, the fact is that what would have become western territory was lost to Russia. That is a material loss for the west and expansion of Russia.

Russian expansion is not in western interests.

Stupidest reply ever. It is in europe's interest to have peace. Do you know what happened last time europe had war?

Wow! A left wing cave dweller. The citizens of the U.S. haven't thought like this in years and I understand how honest talk that isn't first cleansed of any political incorrectness that may offend, ( maybe your not old enough to remember even hearing what it sounds like), might sound peculiar to you but if you actually listen to his own words you would see that Trump cares little about the affairs of nations that don't directly affect us. Why do you think everyone, on the left and the right are pulling their hair out for fear of his election. He has a plan to stop the decline of our country. You should support him. He's almost closed a 23 point lead by Hillary and there's 4 months to go till election.

Not saying they shouldn't have tried to keep the peace at all, but my point is that they went too far in the opposite direction.

Obviously you want to pursue diplomacy rather than war, and attempt to avoid it. That doesn't mean you can just throw away the concept of borders and pretend like there's no such things as conflict of interest, or different cultures, etc. And in many cases, having a strong military on paper means you never have to use it, because it's an undercurrent of the diplomacy going on.

The UK really isn't the best example of a European state that went too far in this direction, because your country opted out of the most egregious parts of the EU. I'm really talking about continental Europe here. And I was mostly talking about war with external enemies, not other European countries.

The Soviets still won the space race even though the Americans had Von Braun who should have given them a big head start. The Americans fought amongst themselves and divided their resources while the Soviets had a single space programme.

As an American, I believe that my country has wallowed in a sense that we are unique, in particular because of our "founding principles". We think that our ideas are better, less self-interested than those from others, and worthy of emulation by everyone. A lot of this was heightened by the strange religious movements (evangelicalism) that grew in large part because of our isolation and lack of involvement in the world in the 19C - God had ordained it, and our growing industrial power proved our righteousness. It is largely nonsense, of course, but not entirely - to a large extent, we were a force for the good in the 20C. When we erred, as we did in Vietnam and Iraq, the failure and catastrophe were as out of proportion as our conception of ourselves and our destiny.

Unfortunately, it is natural for Americans to imagine that we can go forward on our own way and that we have a right to impose our ideas on others, all the while seriously underestimating the costs. Trump represents an extreme and wholly ignorant version of all this. He sees no nuance, knows little history, and thinks in terms of zero-sum real estate deals - there is no room for ambiguity or goals that do not equate with profit, i.e. he has no understanding of diplomacy or outcomes that are not clear "winners".

If he is elected, it will only hasten America's decline, which is relative to the other powers that are necessarily rising with their own industrializations. I am deeply ashamed of him and fear the consequences in the (still unlikely) event of his election.