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Could first cousin marriage be a major part of understanding Islamic extremism?

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Reply 20
Avatar for QE2
QE2
20
Original post by HAnwar
What are you on about.

Posted from TSR Mobile
I think that the OP is implying that because first cousin marriages can lead to offspring with mental disabilities, it could explain why they do stuff that those not suffering such problems, wouldn't.

Not my argument.
Original post by generallee
The Muslim poor in the UK are many times better off than their cousins in the lands they, or their parents left.

Why do you think so many Pakistanis and Bangladeshis want to come and live here?

The same is true for French Muslims. Compare the economies of Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco with that of France.

Grinding poverty may be driving the rise of Islamism in the Muslim world (although it is only a contributing factor even there, because the poor in countries with a different civilisation and culture aren't similarly revolutionary)
but it seems insufficient to explain it here. In comparative terms, the Muslims of western Europe are very lucky indeed.


.


I'm not excusing violence and terrorism, but there is a huge difference between living in a poor, but socially cohesive community based on traditional values and living as a member of the underclass in the West, he did say relative poverty. I don't think that anyone aside from the homeless experience absolute poverty in the UK, but you must have observed that the poorest people are utterly obsessed with Western consumerist culture, they think 2Pac was a serious moral teacher, aspire to be players, take drugs and that's clearly not Islamic, but rather a degenerate bastardisation where the worst aspects of two cultures collide to create some fake-ass rudeboys.
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
So are you an apologist? So why are there no Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist or Rastafarian terrorists? And besides, a lot of them have been educated, chemists, doctors and the like. I can recall, it, I will go and find some examples if you want. And there is terror all over the middle east from people no poorer than their counterparts.

I'm not an apologist. Looking for the reasons behind extremism does not make you an apologist but rather it means you are looking to the root of the problem.

Our muslim community tends to be poorer than other communities. Poverty leads to people being attracted by extremism, both nationalism and islamic extremism.
Original post by Angry Bird
wait till I become a mod..you just wait


Wait, are you fascistic? Are you hateful of free expression?
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
This is slightly abstract, bear with me.
If we are going to the deeper roots of the conflict between an ideology and way of life with the west, could first cousin marriage have much to do with it? It is widespread, and has gone one since Muhammed.
There are clearly genetic physical disadvantages to this, including several defects and perhaps more unseen minor disadvantages, and much of the gene pool is surely afflicted. If we accept there is a strong link between body and mind, as implicit in the mind-body question, and 'mens sana in corpore sano'.....
Then this is perhaps logically consistent with the fundamentalist suffering some type of mental pathology.

Your thoughts?
You should take into account that not everybody here speaks Latin/is familiar with Latin0rooted phrases.

First-cousin marriage has been legal in England for centuries. If this was really a part of it, there would be a hell of a lot more terrorism initiated by natives of our own country.
Original post by QE2
Of course there are a variety of reasons, but you said "a big part of Muslim extremism" was "our economic system". This simply isn't supported by the evidence


There are multiple routes into terrorism, some of which might involve poverty and some of which might not. Generally lone-wolves also tend to have higher rates of mental health issues than the general populace. Moreover American Somalis, 82% of whom live below the poverty line are the source of largest groups travelling to fight with jihadist groups.

, and people are starting to get tired with these constant attempts at deflection away from what is demonstrably "a big part of Muslim extremism"...
Islamic ideology.


Do you have any evidence in the form of research studies to support this conclusion?
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
Wait, are you fascistic? Are you hateful of free expression?


nah I just wanna be a mod, that would be really cool
Original post by QE2
Of course there are a variety of reasons, but you said "a big part of Muslim extremism" was "our economic system". This simply isn't supported by the evidence, and people are starting to get tired with these constant attempts at deflection away from what is demonstrably "a big part of Muslim extremism"...
Islamic ideology.


Except the UK and USA played a huge role in creating Al-Qaeda and ISIS through our disastrous Middle Eastern policy.
Then we have an economic system which leads to huge communities simply being left behind.

Poverty is one of the biggest draws to all forms of extremism. The poorer you are, the less opportunities you seem to have and the more you want a sense of purpose. Extremism often provides that sense of purpose.

Of course there are other factors, but we should deal with ALL factors and that includes an economic system which leads to huge levels of inequality and poverty which is one of the main driving forces of extremism of all kind, especially when you consider how poor the Muslim community in this country is.
Original post by Tootles
You should take into account that not everybody here speaks Latin/is familiar with Latin0rooted phrases.

First-cousin marriage has been legal in England for centuries. If this was really a part of it, there would be a hell of a lot more terrorism initiated by natives of our own country.


I don't speak it, I just recalled it and googled it. Come on, it's technically legal, but we know it's been practised religiously by muslims for centuries, it is extraordinarily rare in UK whites. We're talking known numbers here, not what's technically legal; that's mere sophistry.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by generallee
The Muslim poor in the UK are many times better off than their cousins in the lands they, or their parents left.

Why do you think so many Pakistanis and Bangladeshis want to come and live here?

The same is true for French Muslims. Compare the economies of Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco with that of France.

Grinding poverty may be driving the rise of Islamism in the Muslim world (although it is only a contributing factor even there, because the poor in countries with a different civilisation and culture aren't similarly revolutionary)
but it seems insufficient to explain it here. In comparative terms, the Muslims of western Europe are very lucky indeed.


.

70% of Muslims in this country live in relative poverty.
Poverty is most certainly one of the main driving forces behind extremism.
Original post by Atlas Thugged
I'm not excusing violence and terrorism, but there is a huge difference between living in a poor, but socially cohesive community based on traditional values and living as a member of the underclass in the West, he did say relative poverty. I don't think that anyone aside from the homeless experience absolute poverty in the UK, but you must have observed that the poorest people are utterly obsessed with Western consumerist culture, they think 2Pac was a serious moral teacher, aspire to be players, take drugs and that's clearly not Islamic, but rather a degenerate bastardisation where the worst aspects of two cultures collide to create some fake-ass rudeboys.


I hear you.

What worries me, frightens me even, is that when the products of this "bastardisation" of the Islam and the West try and sort their lives out, (often in prison) they are such easy prey for Islamism from the recruiters they find there.

It is an incredibly glamorous, exciting ideology for exactly that sort of person. The chance to kill, achieve fame, and then immortality with the virgins. What is not to like from their point of view?

But it isn't just them. Look at the schoolgirls who absconded to become Jihadi brides. There is something about the ideology of Islamism that presses buttons that the rest of us can't relate to.

Terrifying, like I say.
Original post by Bornblue
70% of Muslims in this country live in relative poverty.
Poverty is most certainly one of the main driving forces behind extremism.


Sikhs are pretty poor, so are Rastafarians I'm sure, and many many white people. They are not commiting suicide bombings and shootings and torture like this.
Nothing to do with Islam at all then? You seem to think it racist to analyse how this behaviour could stem from an ideology, and a religion. When religion and ideology are totally different things to race. If we don't tackle this honestly and look for the usual answers, we are in big trouble. Because it is not a 'usual' political force, it is a relentless, determined and militant one.
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 32
Avatar for umar39
umar39
10
Inbreeding is pretty disgusting and has no benefit whatsoever. That I acknowledge. Yet, I can't see a definite link between products of incest and their likelihood to commit a terrorist offense.
Reply 33
Avatar for IYGB
IYGB
11
Original post by Angry Bird
nah I just wanna be a mod, that would be really cool


Just apply
What is the problem?
Original post by Bornblue
70% of Muslims in this country live in relative poverty.
Poverty is most certainly one of the main driving forces behind extremism.


Poverty is a factor, but I think you massively over emphasise it.

When push come to shove, Islamism is just a religious cult. It is rather like the Moonies or the followers of David Koresh, or Jim Jones (just on a much much bigger scale).

What prompted people to join those cults? A spiritual emptiness, a desire to find meaning in life, a self disgust.

That is the basic psychological imperative behind Islamism. (And arguably all religions). It just feeds off a major world religion, like a parasite, and therefore has the opportunity to infect over a billion potential recruits.
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
Sikhs are pretty poor, so are Rastafarians I'm sure, and many many white people. They are not commiting suicide bombings and shootings and torture like this.
Nothing to do with Islam at all then? You seem to think it racist to analyse how this behaviour could stem from an ideology, and a religion. When religion and ideology are totally different things to race.


Sikhs are actually one of the wealthiest groups in Britain and India however they've had some issues with terrorism in the 80s in India, not sure about rastafarians, as for white people, well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain
Original post by Bornblue
Our muslim community tends to be poorer than other communities. Poverty leads to people being attracted by extremism, both nationalism and islamic extremism.

Can you provide appropriate statistical data?
Original post by admonit
Can you provide appropriate statistical data?


http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/Documents/research/SocialSciences/Key-Facts-Background-Paper-BPCIV.pdf

page 19
Original post by admonit
Can you provide appropriate statistical data?


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/02/12/british-muslims-facts_n_6670234.html
Original post by blah3210
Sikhs are actually one of the wealthiest groups in Britain and India however they've had some issues with terrorism in the 80s in India, not sure about rastafarians, as for white people, well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain


You're talking about the IRA, that's totally different, it's a sovereignty issue about occupation. It is not the same as a British or European raised person bombing or knifing their fellow countrymen because of a political and religious ideology. You know it isn't. Why can't we just start any discussion on this exceptional phenomenon without a lot of peoples trying to deny it's existence?

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