The Student Room Group
Discovering Higher and Degree Apprenticeships with UWE Bristol, get free advice >>
Discovering Higher and Degree Apprenticeships with UWE Bristol, get free advice >>
Discovering Higher and Degree Apprenticeships with UWE Bristol, get free advice >>

Studying Law & Becoming a lawyer in the US

Okay so I'm starting uni in september studying Sociology with Human Rights. I am planning on moving to the US once I've finished my sociology degree, going to law school there and then becoming a lawyer. I have a US passport, so that's not an issue but... it makes me really nervous to think of how to fund going to uni basically twice, especially if my law career isn't especially lucrative money-wise. However, I don't think I'm ready by any means to move there now, and go to law school in another country at 18. I'm just very unsure of how I'd go about it all... help??

Scroll to see replies

Original post by pluvophile
Okay so I'm starting uni in september studying Sociology with Human Rights. I am planning on moving to the US once I've finished my sociology degree, going to law school there and then becoming a lawyer. I have a US passport, so that's not an issue but... it makes me really nervous to think of how to fund going to uni basically twice, especially if my law career isn't especially lucrative money-wise. However, I don't think I'm ready by any means to move there now, and go to law school in another country at 18. I'm just very unsure of how I'd go about it all... help??


Any particular reason why you want to practice law in the US and not the UK given the added training costs?

I'm not really sure what you're asking. As I'm sure you know, law is a graduate degree in the States so you need to do an undergraduate degree before you can start anyway. It doesn't really matter where you do this degree, here or there. I believe that you can sit the New York bar exam with a UK LLB degree; you don't need an American LLM or JD... so it might make more sense for you study law in the UK rather than sociology. California allows holders of a UK LLB degree who have also successfully qualified as solicitors or barristers in the UK (meaning you have also completed an LPC or BPTC and a training contract or pupillage) to sit their bar exam.
Reply 2
Avatar for pluvophile
pluvophile
OP
Original post by Snufkin
Any particular reason why you want to practice law in the US and not the UK given the added training costs?

I'm not really sure what you're asking. As I'm sure you know, law is a graduate degree in the States so you need to do an undergraduate degree before you can start anyway. It doesn't really matter where you do this degree, here or there. I believe that you can sit the New York bar exam with a UK LLB degree; you don't need an American LLM or JD... so it might make more sense for you study law in the UK rather than sociology. California allows holders of a UK LLB degree who have also successfully qualified as solicitors or barristers in the UK (meaning you have also completed an LPC or BPTC and a training contract or pupillage) to sit their bar exam.


So, do you recommend I see if I can apply (most likely through clearing) to study law instead? Im aware of conversion courses existing, so couldn't I do a conversion course after taking sociology that would mean that I'd have a UK LLB at the end? Thankyou!
Original post by pluvophile
So, do you recommend I see if I can apply (most likely through clearing) to study law instead? Im aware of conversion courses existing, so couldn't I do a conversion course after taking sociology that would mean that I'd have a UK LLB at the end? Thankyou!


I'm not going to recommend you take a certain course, it is up to you. Certainly don't do a LLB unless you are interested in the academic study of law. I only mentioned it because it might save you time and money. The New York bar doesn't accept law conversion courses, not sure about California. Where do you actually want to live in the US?
American firms won't bother with you without an ivy league school/oxbridge. It would be a lot easier to just get seconded and stay.
Original post by Fermionic
American firms won't bother with you without an ivy league school/oxbridge. It would be a lot easier to just get seconded and stay.


Where is the evidence for this (absurd) statement? A simple LinkedIn search proves you wrong.
Original post by Snufkin
Where is the evidence for this (absurd) statement? A simple LinkedIn search proves you wrong.


It's not an absurd statement, high-paying/white shoe NY firms won't go near you. OP has a passport which helps, but that's the reality.
Original post by Fermionic
It's not an absurd statement, high-paying/white shoe NY firms won't go near you. OP has a passport which helps, but that's the reality.


So you have no proof?
Original post by Snufkin
So you have no proof?


Lots of anecdotal stuff, i'm currently seconded to the US. I wanted to do it myself before i qualified, now i know that would be insane given the competition/costs of grad school. Much, much easier to get seconded. Sure, OP would have a chance, but, should he bet the 200k cost of grad school on it? Nah.
Original post by Fermionic
Lots of anecdotal stuff, i'm currently seconded to the US. I wanted to do it myself before i qualified, now i know that would be insane given the competition/costs of grad school. Much, much easier to get seconded. Sure, OP would have a chance, but, should he bet the 200k cost of grad school on it? Nah.


If he wants to work in New York then he doesn't need to pay for grad school, he just needs to do a LLB and pass the bar exam. I have no doubt that competition is fierce, but that is true of everywhere.
Reply 10
Avatar for Rheima
Rheima
1
If you want to do law for a career, why on earth are you taking a sociology degree now not a law one?

I did a sociology degree, at University of Manchester -it was really pointless. If you want to be a lawyer, start down that path now, get all the experience you can.
Original post by Snufkin
If he wants to work in New York then he doesn't need to pay for grad school, he just needs to do a LLB and pass the bar exam. I have no doubt that competition is fierce, but that is true of everywhere.


He really does if he wants to have a shot, those firms do not recruit outside of the Ivy League/Oxbridge. If he's good enough to get into the latter then yeh, good luck to him. But then, if he was, i doubt he'd be on this forum asking such a question.

The competition is not comparable to London, also there's hardly any risk when one gets a TC.
Original post by Fermionic
He really does if he wants to have a shot, those firms do not recruit outside of the Ivy League/Oxbridge. If he's good enough to get into the latter then yeh, good luck to him. But then, if he was, i doubt he'd be on this forum asking such a question.

The competition is not comparable to London, also there's hardly any risk when one gets a TC.


Where are you getting this idea from? Getting into a big NY/Chicago firm is very competitive and they pick almost exclusively from T14 schools when recruiting those who have a JD. The easier way is to get into a firm here and then getting a secondment to the USA


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Underscore__
Where are you getting this idea from? Getting into a big NY/Chicago firm is very competitive and they pick almost exclusively from T14 schools when recruiting those who have a JD. The easier way is to get into a firm here and then getting a secondment to the USA


Posted from TSR Mobile


That's exactly what i've been saying...
Original post by Snufkin
Any particular reason why you want to practice law in the US and not the UK given the added training costs?

I'm not really sure what you're asking. As I'm sure you know, law is a graduate degree in the States so you need to do an undergraduate degree before you can start anyway. It doesn't really matter where you do this degree, here or there. I believe that you can sit the New York bar exam with a UK LLB degree; you don't need an American LLM or JD... so it might make more sense for you study law in the UK rather than sociology. California allows holders of a UK LLB degree who have also successfully qualified as solicitors or barristers in the UK (meaning you have also completed an LPC or BPTC and a training contract or pupillage) to sit their bar exam.


Certainly you can take the Bar without a US JD or LLM, but US law firms heavily favour those with JD degrees - regardless of whether you have completed a law degree elsewhere plus the Bar.

OP: I would recommend, if you really want to practice law in the states to either apply for those Universities in the US who offer scholarships or do law in the UK, get a training contract and then look to move over post qualification which would be easiest if your TC was with a US firm. The latter option is obviously more time consuming and also more risky.
Original post by LawStudentLLM
Certainly you can take the Bar without a US JD or LLM, but US law firms heavily favour those with JD degrees - regardless of whether you have completed a law degree elsewhere plus the Bar.

OP: I would recommend, if you really want to practice law in the states to either apply for those Universities in the US who offer scholarships or do law in the UK, get a training contract and then look to move over post qualification which would be easiest if your TC was with a US firm. The latter option is obviously more time consuming and also more risky.


Original post by J-SP
You'd really struggle to be hired by any firm in the US without a JD.

The competition in New York is insane. It makes getting a TC in London for a US or MC firm look like a walk in the park.


Posted from TSR Mobile


Fair enough, but I still don't believe that US firms will only hire Oxbridge/Ivy grads (which was Fermionic's main point).
Original post by Snufkin
Fair enough, but I still don't believe that US firms will only hire Oxbridge/Ivy grads (which was Fermionic's main point).


No not at all. Not even all the Ivies do law. It is more centred on the T14 law "schools" for law (top 14), and also the on the schools just outside of the T14.

In the US hiring from schools is heavily based on class rank. The higher up the T14 your school is the more percentage of students they will take from that school, and the lower your class rank can be to make you competitive. E.g. Big law firms might interview the Top 50% from Yale (towards the top of the T14) as opposed to interviewing the Top 15% from UCLA (just outside the T14) for example. Obviously students from lower ranking schools can get in to big law firms too, but only the top top students would get in, and the good performing others would be competitive at smaller US firms.

Obviously also those figures aren't exact, and applications consider more than just grades, but in the US it is much more heavily relied on. So going to an Ivy which offers law would be an advantage, but not the be all and end all. Much like going to a Russell Group university in the UK although in the UK class rank etc. isn't relied on so heavily.
Original post by Fermionic
That's exactly what i've been saying...


Ivy League and t14 aren't the same thing


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Fermionic
He really does if he wants to have a shot, those firms do not recruit outside of the Ivy League/Oxbridge. If he's good enough to get into the latter then yeh, good luck to him. But then, if he was, i doubt he'd be on this forum asking such a question.

The competition is not comparable to London, also there's hardly any risk when one gets a TC.


It's really not about Ivy League or Oxbridge, I think you're mistaken.

In the US, the top 14 law schools have a monopoly on recruitment into 'BigLaw', there is a mix of institutions within that top 14 grouping but that is the tradition. OP frankly would be making a silly decision to go down this route unless they are independently wealthy - law school in the US is a postgraduate degree and can cost up to $200-250k all told. Not to mention, getting into a T14 school is not easy - not in the slightest.

I'm not quite sure why you brought up Oxbridge as a degree from there wouldn't qualify one to work in the US (aside from the obvious exceptions like Cali and NY where foreign law degree holders can take the bar).

It is also most certainly NOT the case that you need to be from Oxbridge to get into a US firm's London office. It undoubtedly helps, a ton, but it is not a prerequisite by any means. A strong RG university would suffice if one was to compete for the various vacation schemes, training contracts etc on offer - of course, granted they have the right CV.

OP, what you plan on doing is a bit pointless if you aren't rich. There are no guarsntees that you would a) get into a good enough US law school, b) be able to afford said law school - even with loans, c) get hired by a biglaw firm, d) pass the bar. It would be much wiser going down the path of training as a solicitor here - which, by the way you don't need a law degree to do as if you're good enough to land solid training contract offers the firm will pay for your conversion course and LPC. You could always second in the US during your TC and granted you maybe do an LLM, you may even have the opportunity to take the NY or California bar.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Snufkin
Fair enough, but I still don't believe that US firms will only hire Oxbridge/Ivy grads (which was Fermionic's main point).



I'm from Toronto but my brother lives in New York for work, and it most certainly is very competitive to get an associate position within NYC law firms. My brother was accepted onto 2nd tier universities for law in the USA and waited 2 year before he got a place a U. Chicago in order to make himself a competitive employee.

Even a lot of foreign educated lawyers who moved to Toronto or went abroad (namely UK) to study law get articling and associate positions at low end personal injury law firms.

Quick Reply

Related discussions

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you