German who works with refugees describes his experience

Well, it does because men all around the world are marrying young girls on the basis of this action.

They.do.this.in.the.catholic.church.I.am.not.excusing.anyones.actions(actually.im.more.against.it.than.anything.).but.muhammed.has.nothing.to.do.with.extremism.

I wouldn't say so. Around 20% probably don't integrate but most of the Muslims at my school very much live a Western lifestyle. Has this been the case with the Muslims you've met? They don't have to change their religion really... they are free to believe in what they want and the majority don't really care for the violent bits of the Quran. They don't need to take responsibility for their religions faults either...

I am not a fan of the religion myself and I think we should probably temporarily ban immigration from Muslim countries to be on the safe side but there's a fine line between hating Islam and hating Muslims and you've crossed it in my opinion.

No. It is the single largest influence on Islamists.

Muhammad's moral and practical example is a different issue.

You claimed that Islam was a religion of peace, and in its purest form, a "great religion".
This is clearly and demonstrably not true.

In fact, it is people who implement it in its "purest form" (ie. without allowing any modernisation, revision or dilution to make it more compatible with 21st century secular morality) who represent the "extremist" interpretation.

Example:
The Quran gives permission for Muslims to have sex with their female slaves. Muhammad confirms this in the sunnah.
The majority of Muslims would reject sex slaves as medieval barbarism (one would hope). ISIS practice it because it is permitted in the Quran and by Muhammad in sahih hadith.

So, who is following Islam in its "purest form"? Those who insist that the word of Allah is perfect, final, and unchangable by men?
Or those who claim that men can overrule what Allah has made halal and make it haram?

The difference is that the Catholic Church doesn't say that Jesus did it before, so it is Ok. In fact,I am sure the Pope has explicitly forbidden child marriage.

However, in the case of Islam, Muhammed married a 6 year old and people consider him to be a role model for today.

Muhammad's moral and practical example is a different issue.

I still think it's knit-picking. I agree with you to a certain extent, but when I tried to explain this to someone on here a year ago they said, muhammed raped a nine year old child, which he did, but seriously is has got nothing and doesn't contribute to extermism.

What about when Muhammad ordered his army to slaughter loads of Jewish men because their leaders betrayed him slightly?

For more info, look up Banu Qurayza.

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4v08c7/germanys_chancellor_merkel_firmly_rejects_calls/d5uhvom?st=ir6vh2rg&sh=8dd01f32 [–]NineSwords 3299 points 7 hours ago*x6Due to my occupation I think I have a lot more contact to refugees as the normal commentor here. So let me chime in to your statements.From the 600+ refugees I've talked with were not a single one unthankful for my help. I have been at no point been afraid that something would happen to me.As you might have expected there's a "but". The male group of those 600+ were almost entirely sexist in one way or another. By either not talking to my boss because she's a woman, or by complaining directly or indirectly about the stuff female staff or non-refugee students were wearing. There have been minor incidents that have been "dealt with" by the higher ups in order to not bring in the police. Our personal has been politely asked to wear more moderate clothing or hide their piercings. There have been several complaints by female staff and students about verbal abuse. 2 hours ago a coworker had a constant stream of students asking her stupid questions. When they left her office they were making quite some disrespectful gestures. She was wearing a summer dress with some cleavage. What I find interesting is that it's the same persons that shout some insults on some days and make some lecherous comments the next.There is also a insane agression and potential for violence between the different regugees themself. Just last week there have been serious fight between 2 students because one of them decided to pronounce his name in in class in the way we were pronouncing it. Another student attacked him after class because this name is pronounced different in arab. Seriously, I couldn't quite follow the reasoning they gave to the police, but there was a lot of talk about being proud heritage, etc..There are a lot of offers from volunteers to help integration (i.e. free courses to learn to play Guitar in a mixed group, and stuff like that) that go unused because there does't seem to be much interest in them. From my personal experience there is absolutely no interest from refugees to reach out to anything that involves integrating with non-refugees. There are groups and sub groups that completely isolate themselves.So, from my personal experience with this group of refugees, I'm not afraid of someone blowing them self up, but from their reluctance to integrate into our society and accept personal freedom of females. Those people come from places where they have a completely incompatible culture ingrained into them from their first breath and I don't see them change this culture anytime soon. What will change is our culture to commemorate theirs. There are already some orders in place to change ourself in order to commemorate accomodate the refugees. Small things like "wear something less revealing" or "put out your piercings at work". At no point has there been someone saying to the refugees "Well, this is how it is here and you have to deal with it. Maybe try wearing something like this yourself you might actually like it". There is also some change in the populace visible. For example people going to the public pool are now changing into their swim suits at the pool and not at home (which used to be commonplace) so they don't have to walk from the parking space to the pool in their swim suits out of fear to be assaulted (both verbally or physically). Going from personal sphere of friends, a lot of them avoid the public pools altogether and rather flock to the lakes here.

SO it's okay to molest boys because the catholic church hasn't got it in their teachings?

Yes, I agree with you, but honestly it's got nothing to extremism and it doesn't affect culture. It's just an excuse, you're trying to say somethings wrong with the religion. There's not.

Honestly, I can't have different opinions at once. I can't say anything bad about the religion. However, either way, koran bad or good, the culture. Either way, Not all muslims is like preaching alllivesmatter, it's excuses. It's trying to negate muslims from their actions and dismiss the attacks based on the doctrines of the islamic culture. My point, religion=good, BUT Either way, the religion being good, it doesn't make any relevance at all. I'm argeeing with you tbh, understand?

We are already well past the 'safe side', like with climate change. Also although it makes sense to us, our political debate will not be conducted around the 'safe side', that's far too logical. It will be dictated by the thought crime and moral outrage brigade and hence we will lose all objectivity, anyone who wants to do that will be called racist, as will anyone who wants any immigration limits....and...you know the rest.

What does that have to do with marrying a 6 year old? They are quite clearly two different subjects. We can talk about the other one as well if you want.
' so it's ok'- by you



Well, I am not here to say that religion is good or bad.

I am saying that considering a man like Muhammed 1000 years ago to be a perfect example for a modern Muslim is insane.

This leads to further insanity with people being killed over drawings and etc.

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4v08c7/germanys_chancellor_merkel_firmly_rejects_calls/d5uhvom?st=ir6vh2rg&sh=8dd01f32[–]NineSwords 3299 points 7 hours ago*x6Due to my occupation I think I have a lot more contact to refugees as the normal commentor here. So let me chime in to your statements.From the 600+ refugees I've talked with were not a single one unthankful for my help. I have been at no point been afraid that something would happen to me.As you might have expected there's a "but". The male group of those 600+ were almost entirely sexist in one way or another. By either not talking to my boss because she's a woman, or by complaining directly or indirectly about the stuff female staff or non-refugee students were wearing. There have been minor incidents that have been "dealt with" by the higher ups in order to not bring in the police. Our personal has been politely asked to wear more moderate clothing or hide their piercings. There have been several complaints by female staff and students about verbal abuse. 2 hours ago a coworker had a constant stream of students asking her stupid questions. When they left her office they were making quite some disrespectful gestures. She was wearing a summer dress with some cleavage. What I find interesting is that it's the same persons that shout some insults on some days and make some lecherous comments the next.There is also a insane agression and potential for violence between the different regugees themself. Just last week there have been serious fight between 2 students because one of them decided to pronounce his name in in class in the way we were pronouncing it. Another student attacked him after class because this name is pronounced different in arab. Seriously, I couldn't quite follow the reasoning they gave to the police, but there was a lot of talk about being proud heritage, etc..There are a lot of offers from volunteers to help integration (i.e. free courses to learn to play Guitar in a mixed group, and stuff like that) that go unused because there does't seem to be much interest in them. From my personal experience there is absolutely no interest from refugees to reach out to anything that involves integrating with non-refugees. There are groups and sub groups that completely isolate themselves.So, from my personal experience with this group of refugees, I'm not afraid of someone blowing them self up, but from their reluctance to integrate into our society and accept personal freedom of females. Those people come from places where they have a completely incompatible culture ingrained into them from their first breath and I don't see them change this culture anytime soon. What will change is our culture to commemorate theirs. There are already some orders in place to change ourself in order to commemorate accomodate the refugees. Small things like "wear something less revealing" or "put out your piercings at work". At no point has there been someone saying to the refugees "Well, this is how it is here and you have to deal with it. Maybe try wearing something like this yourself you might actually like it". There is also some change in the populace visible. For example people going to the public pool are now changing into their swim suits at the pool and not at home (which used to be commonplace) so they don't have to walk from the parking space to the pool in their swim suits out of fear to be assaulted (both verbally or physically). Going from personal sphere of friends, a lot of them avoid the public pools altogether and rather flock to the lakes here.

Yes? What does this have to do with anything? Nothing of this contributes to extremism. I'm not arguing any more.

I also love this. Don't get it twisted. I'm just saying the religion is nice I AM NOT STICKING UP FOR THIS SICKNESS IN ANY WAY!

If your religion calls for the persecution of other religions, and the people from your religious group are acting on this belief, then you bear some responsibility.

It is on Muslim communities to change their belief, reform it, so that the rest of us can live in peace. That some don't care for the violent parts or have a selective interpretation of it doesn't change that the onus is on them to address the issue that precipitates the problem, the issue being their religion.

Again I will say it, freedom of religion isn't free.

I know you are not.

If you agree that Child marriage is an extreme attitude,then you also have to agree that considering Muhammed to be a perfect person to be extremist as well.

I think you're just knit-picking tbh, Like communism, Islam, in it's purest form is a great religion

but I look with disgust when black people convert to it.

but.muhammed.has.nothing.to.do.with.extremism.

Dude, lay off the crack. Go troll somewhere else.

Some of the more extreme elements of Islam come from the sunnah, not the Quran. The sunnah is the example, teachings and sayings of Muhammad.
Stoning adulterers, executing apostates and homosexuals, executing prisoners, the use of torture, political assassination - all come from the sunnah but are not found in the Quran.

Muhammad has a great deal to do with Islamist extremism.

Muhammad's moral and practical example is a different issue.

I don't see why I should be held responsible for the actions of some random ISIS people. I have lived a normal, peaceful life and I haven't done anything bad- why should I have to reform my beliefs when I'm not harming anyone? Live and let live imo