Ehhh... I'm kinda with the anti-Trump brigade on this one

Fundamentalist Christians are not a particularly great threat to Western society. They don't murder people who mock their religion.

I don't think all Muslims should be banned. Banning people from a country isn't punishment, as allowing people in is a privilege.

No I don't. I just criticise the majority of Muslims who think homosexuality should be illegal and think Sharia should be the rule of the land. I am aware that those people should be allowed to believe whatever they want, but that doesn't change the fact that I dislike them and will continue to criticise them.


Perhaps we should criticise the people who support killing people in abortion clinics, though.

Why do you assume that I don't dislike fundamentalist Christians as well?

No, they just shoot up abortion clinics and sexually assault young children.

Ridiculous logic. Allowing people of every religion to enter a country but one is punishment. Banning people who've done nothing wrong but simply belong to a certain religion or background is fascism.

Do the majority think that? What does it matter what they think? We shouldn't have a thought police and people should only be responsible and punishable for their actions, not their thoughts.

People are allowed to oppose gay marriage, that's up to them. As long as they don't prevent others exercising this right then I don't care what they think. Your opinions are your own, your actions affect others and that's what matters.

It's fine to criticise Islam, it's not fine to propose punishing ordinary, innocent Muslims for the actions of terrorists.

So you dislike Muslims in general but only dislike Christian fundamentalists?


Posted from TSR Mobile

I may be ignorant here. But doesn't trump want to make torture legal and also make it legal for families of terror suspects to be killed?

No, I only dislike Muslim and Christian fundamentalists. However, a majority of Muslims are fundamentalists.

Yeah of course, I'm sure lots of incompetent businessmen have a net worth of $4.5bn



Posted from TSR Mobile

Nice try, but firstly it wouldn't be the first time he has over-inflated his personal finances (the value seems to go down with each passing bout of scrutiny), he is a bit of a con artist that way, he is about image after all, trying to convince people he is greater than he is, financially and otherwise.

Secondly his very well documented string of bankruptcies and the fact that pretty much all the profitable Trump-branded business are run by people other than him, which he doesn't even own says a lot.

He is a brand name, a logo, a figurehead. His real talents as far as you can call them that, is in PR. He plays the role of "rich man", who flaunts wealth (whether he actually tangibly has that wealth is something else), an actor who puts on a play to investors, and which keeps his brand-name (and the owners/investors behind it) current.


I'll give it to him though, once and if he's done with a presidency, that's almost a license to print an income, so good on him, but basically he is no leader or competent manager. He's also very divisive.

Great presidential candidate there.

I'm sorry but if you have time to make comment after comment on here then you have time to answer my earlier question.

What should the left's response to Islamic terrorism be and how will this prevent Islamic terrorism and quell the rise of the far right?
I'm not looking to trip you up, genuinely. I just want to know what your solution is.
If we move closer to the far right, they become less extreme, not more.

No one is saying there isn't an issue, but to propose banning all Muslims because they share a characteristic of a few terrorists really is fascistic.

Your Airport security example is flawed as EVERYONE is checked, not just one race, religion or gender and that's not even a punishment as all innocent people are allowed through.

1) Deport extremist hate preachers
2) Deport foriegn born criminals

3) Deportation of convicted terrorist upon release from jail

4) Much stronger prison sentences for convicted terrorist offences

5) Strong Surveilance of all mosques

6) Stop importing more muslims en masse

7) Strong curfews and asset freezes on those under investigation

8) Breaking up and better surveilance of extremist grooming cultivated IN prisons
9) Strong sentences and repercussions for muslim communities who aid and abet extremists

10) Much tougher, reality based stance towards normal muslim community. No more pandering and mollycuddling with kid gloves

These are just 10 things i can loosely think off. Now, i have not thoroughly examined each idea but this is the sort of action needed to crush the extremists

And you know that how?


Posted from TSR Mobile

Regressives love to make the claim that "most" Muslims are moderates, and that 99.99% of Muslims are peaceful. The problem is, they never support these claims with any evidence. It's complete conjecture, which just seems as if it could be reasonable. Surely everyone in the world is just like us, right?Here is real evidence:These are polls conducted by Pew Research Center.

For more information see here:

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

For information on Pew, see here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pew_Research_Center

Do Muslims in the UK have more liberal views? According to this next poll, no. 52% of Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

And according to this last poll, it seems almost all British Muslims think homosexuality is morally wrong, as not a single one questioned thought it was morally acceptable: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/muslims-britain-france-germany-homosexuality

Which should all be criticised, and any Christian who is OK with that should criticised too. Very few are though, while surveys show that 52% of Muslims in the UK think that homosexuality should be illegal https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law. When taking into account the proportional sizes of their demographics in the UK, Muslims create far more problems than Christians in terms of grooming gangs, sex assaults, homophobic hate spiel, antisemitism, and violent and murderous acts committed in the name of their religion.





It isn't fascism. It has nothing to do with the definition of fascism. But I don't care about this anyway because it would be impossible to ban all Muslims and I don't agree with it anyway.





People are responsible for believing in the ideas that they believe in, and the idea that they aren't is absurd. Every idea is up for debate, every idea can be criticised. And if I dislike an idea, I will criticise it. It has nothing to do with thought policing. I don't want to get the punitive system involved.




People are allowed to want gay people jailed, and I am allowed to dislike them for wanting it.




It is fine to criticise Muslims for believing in things which I dislike, though. That's how free speech works.

1) Deport extremist hate preachers

2) Deport foriegn born criminals

3) Deportation of convicted terrorist upon release from jail

4) Much stronger prison sentences for convicted terrorist offences

5) Strong Surveilance of all mosques

6) Stop importing more muslims en masse

7) Strong curfews and asset freezes on those under investigation

8) Breaking up and better surveilance of extremist grooming cultivated IN prisons

9) Strong sentences and repercussions for muslim communities who aid and abet extremists

10) Much tougher, reality based stance towards normal muslim community. No more pandering and mollycuddling with kid gloves

If you dont like the airport example, how about when a selected group of people are quarantined through fear of spreading a virus etc

The greatest thing Trump has done is convincing so many people he is even slightly 'anti-establishment'. A corporate billionaire who has thrived from our economic system hardly strikes you as anti-establishment.

Two problems with this. Firstly what if they are British? We can't simply deport our own people. Secondly if we deport Islamic hate preachers then surely you'd approve deporting far right hate preachers?

If the crimes are bad enough, we do. Just as we did with Abu Qhatada and in the process we made sure that Jordan would not use evidence obtained by torture which was a real victory for human rights.

Please tell me, in particular which sentences are too light?

Ridiculous idea. Exactly the type which is likely to make ordinary young Muslims feel even more isolated, alienated and distrusted, making them far more likely to turn to extremism, the very issue you are trying to prevent.

You seem to have a rather strange, unwavering belief and trust in polls to the extent that you never question their reliability, validity or indeed methodology.

The poll stating that 52% of Muslims opposed homosexuality was a survey of just 1000 Muslims. Do you know how they made sure that these 1000 Muslims were representative of all Muslims in the country? Answer is they did not.
They largely chose Muslims from poorer, more conservative areas of majority Muslims, which only accounts for 50% of our Muslim population. Have a read of this: http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9666, It explains it well here.

But let's for a minute take this poll at face value and assume it's correct. You do realise 175 of our MPs voted against gay marriage, are they fundamentalists? In Northern Ireland both gay marriage and abortion are banned, are they fundamentalists?

In the 70s here it was illegal to be homosexual and you could be sent to prison for it, were we all fundamentalist then? In the 80s Thatcher banned the teaching of homosexuality in schools, were we all fundamentalist then? Or is it only fundamentalist when Muslims do it?

Over time, attitudes have become more liberal towards homosexuality from all sides. It takes time and as Muslims become more assimilated, their attitudes have and will continue to accept homosexuality even if they do not agree with it.

Yet time and time and time again, you hold ordinary and innocent Muslims to a standard that you hold no one else. All i'm asking for is consistency.

You seem to want to blame and punish ordinary Muslims for the actions of terrorists, simply because they share a characteristic and that is fascism.

The government makes their life miserable. Banning orders from busy community places, restrictions in where they can and cant go and so on. Isolate them from the muslim community who they are targeting. They break the rules they get a very punitive prison sentence.

No - He was first convicted in 2002 and was only deported in 2013 after BS courts said we could not kick him out because he may be tortured. He was only deported because we reached a deal with Jordan not to torture him. Its utter BS and exactly one of the issues the far right will address.

The whole British justice system is in general two lenient, its particularly bad having convicted extremists spending short stints in their and coming out even more extreme and angry

Riightt, religion of peace members might go Jihad if you dont bend over for them. Utterly appalling and if you think good nice muslims can be turned into beheading, raping, isis fanatics... because of surveilance of mosques

Perhaps Muslims could be yano, reasonable smart people like everybody else and support the fight against the extremists they continually harbor in the midst yet tell us they deplore like the rest of us

then maybe you should reconsider just what a HUGE problem we have (Yano with having millions of muslims)

How are muslims going to react when fruit loop nutters and far right nazis start firebombing their mosques? Now that will be an interesting test for the religion of peace

You have no idea that the Muslims in areas where they make up a higher percentage of a community are more conservative, that is an assumption.

Being against legalising gay marriage is vastly less terrible than thinking gays should actually be sent to prison.

There is no evidence to suggest that Muslims are becoming, or will become, more liberal in the UK. In fact, this study shows the opposite: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540895/Young-British-Muslims-getting-more-radical.html

I realise you will turn your nose up at it due to it being in the Telegraph, but it is still more evidence than you have for your conjecture that Muslims will become more liberal.

Actually I just hold Muslims to the same standard as everyone else. That's the difference.

These magical things known as "statistics". See my thread:

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4233740

You have no idea that they are just as Conservative. That is also an assumption. What we do know for sure is that the poll was not representative of all Muslims in the UK.
If polls were as accurate as you seem to think we wouldn't have voted Brexit and Ed Miliband would be PM.

Is it? 'We believe in gay rights, but don't think they should be able to get married' - Yeah, real liberal that.

It's happened with every other community, why not give it a chance here?

Except you don't. Whenever there is an attack involving a Muslim you are the first one here, starting about 15 separate anti-Muslim threads.

Yet whenever there is a terrorist attack not involving a Muslim you are suspiciously quiet, you refuse to condemn them anywhere near to the extent that you condemn others. Why?

You regularly bring up passages of the Quaran to show that Islam is sexist/homophobic, and it is. But why do you never do the same for the Bible or Talmud?

You support measures such as banning all refugees and all Muslims because of the actions of a few terrorists/criminals yet you don't hold the same standards for others.

I hold Muslims to the same standards as everyone else, you do not.

But you seem to be missing the very basic point. People can think whatever they want. As long as they do not act on those thoughts there is no problem.

I personally think a right wing, libertarian economic view is far, far, far more dangerous than a socially conservative attitude as the former leads to huge levels of poverty, which is so often the perfect breeding ground for extremism to flourish.