The Student Room Group

Where is the leftist liberal outrage over this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/31/male-refugees-settling-in-britain-need-to-be-formally-taught-how/

Thangham Debbonaire, a Labour MP who chairs the parliamentary group on refugees has said that male refugees who settle in the UK must be taught how to correctly treat women to avoid sexual harassment, citing integration as a key motivation and ensuring that new arrivals settle in with their communities properly. What on Earth is she implying? Why do male refugees need to be taught how to treat women properly? If male refugees must be taught how to treat women properly, then the suggestion is that their view of women may not be adequate to fit in with the expectations of a Western society because of their cultural background where women do not have the same status as they do here. Agree or disagree with the comments but the sentiment expressed seems eerily familiar to something another politician warned about before, except this politician was remorselessly castigated and criticised by most Remain backing politicians and even the Archibishop of Cantenbury. Yes, I am talking about Nigel Farage.

My question is this. When Nigel Farage said it, it was outrageous scaremongering. Farage's comments were made in a slightly different context of course, his assumption was that if the UK voted to remain, in a few years time many of the refugees in Germany and Austria and so on would have EU passports and could come to the UK under free movement, however the main point about male migrants being more prone to sexually harassing or assaulting women was the same. So when a Labour MP says pretty much the same thing (or hints at it) except outside a referendum context, why is it not branded as racist or scaremongering? And if you broadly agree with the MP's comments but would still attack Nigel for making the near same comments, justifying it with the pathetically predictable "but Nigel said it to sway the outcome of a national referendum", so-why is an assessment of the migrant crisis any less valid during a national referendum then after? Why doesn't Justin Welby step in and attach the same reprobation to her in the way he did to Nigel Farage? Where are the waves of left wing Labour supporting politicians, activists and Twitter warriors passing down condemnation? Maybe your conceited sense of moral superiority doesn't transcend partisan lines. Lefties, show yourselves and excoriate Thangham Debbonaire or you are indeed phoney hypocrites and your so called "compassionate values" are nothing but double dealing quackery.

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Original post by Sycatonne23
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/31/male-refugees-settling-in-britain-need-to-be-formally-taught-how/

Thangham Debbonaire, a Labour MP who chairs the parliamentary group on refugees has said that male refugees who settle in the UK must be taught how to correctly treat women to avoid sexual harassment, citing integration as a key motivation and ensuring that new arrivals settle in with their communities properly. What on Earth is she implying? Why do male refugees need to be taught how to treat women properly? If male refugees must be taught how to treat women properly, then the suggestion is that their view of women may not be adequate to fit in with the expectations of a Western society because of their cultural background where women do not have the same status as they do here. Agree or disagree with the comments but the sentiment expressed seems eerily familiar to something another politician warned about before, except this politician was remorselessly castigated and criticised by most Remain backing politicians and even the Archibishop of Cantenbury. Yes, I am talking about Nigel Farage.

My question is this. When Nigel Farage said it, it was outrageous scaremongering. Farage's comments were made in a slightly different context of course, his assumption was that if the UK voted to remain, in a few years time many of the refugees in Germany and Austria and so on would have EU passports and could come to the UK under free movement, however the main point about male migrants being more prone to sexually harassing or assaulting women was the same. So when a Labour MP says pretty much the same thing (or hints at it) except outside a referendum context, why is it not branded as racist or scaremongering? And if you broadly agree with the MP's comments but would still attack Nigel for making the near same comments, justifying it with the pathetically predictable "but Nigel said it to sway the outcome of a national referendum", so-why is an assessment of the migrant crisis any less valid during a national referendum then after? Why doesn't Justin Welby step in and attach the same reprobation to her in the way he did to Nigel Farage? Where are the waves of left wing Labour supporting politicians, activists and Twitter warriors passing down condemnation? Maybe your conceited sense of moral superiority doesn't transcend partisan lines. Lefties, show yourselves and excoriate Thangham Debbonaire or you are indeed phoney hypocrites and your so called "compassionate values" are nothing but double dealing quackery.


This should be funny reading the replies


Posted from TSR Mobile
The difference is the labour MP is talking about refugees and Farage was talking about all immigration. Really not that complicated.

Many countries have things in place to help refugees
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35353310

There is no evidence normal legal immigration poses any risk to rape. That is why it was Farage's usual riding the tiger of xenophobia that caused the outrage

Original post by paul514
This should be funny reading the replies




Posted from TSR Mobile


Original post by Sycatonne23
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/31/male-refugees-settling-in-britain-need-to-be-formally-taught-how/

Thangham Debbonaire, a Labour MP who chairs the parliamentary group on refugees has said that male refugees who settle in the UK must be taught how to correctly treat women to avoid sexual harassment, citing integration as a key motivation and ensuring that new arrivals settle in with their communities properly. What on Earth is she implying? Why do male refugees need to be taught how to treat women properly? If male refugees must be taught how to treat women properly, then the suggestion is that their view of women may not be adequate to fit in with the expectations of a Western society because of their cultural background where women do not have the same status as they do here. Agree or disagree with the comments but the sentiment expressed seems eerily familiar to something another politician warned about before, except this politician was remorselessly castigated and criticised by most Remain backing politicians and even the Archibishop of Cantenbury. Yes, I am talking about Nigel Farage.

My question is this. When Nigel Farage said it, it was outrageous scaremongering. Farage's comments were made in a slightly different context of course, his assumption was that if the UK voted to remain, in a few years time many of the refugees in Germany and Austria and so on would have EU passports and could come to the UK under free movement, however the main point about male migrants being more prone to sexually harassing or assaulting women was the same. So when a Labour MP says pretty much the same thing (or hints at it) except outside a referendum context, why is it not branded as racist or scaremongering? And if you broadly agree with the MP's comments but would still attack Nigel for making the near same comments, justifying it with the pathetically predictable "but Nigel said it to sway the outcome of a national referendum", so-why is an assessment of the migrant crisis any less valid during a national referendum then after? Why doesn't Justin Welby step in and attach the same reprobation to her in the way he did to Nigel Farage? Where are the waves of left wing Labour supporting politicians, activists and Twitter warriors passing down condemnation? Maybe your conceited sense of moral superiority doesn't transcend partisan lines. Lefties, show yourselves and excoriate Thangham Debbonaire or you are indeed phoney hypocrites and your so called "compassionate values" are nothing but double dealing quackery.
It still is racist and patronising to say that a whole group of people are somehow perverted and need to be taught to behave in a certain way that pleases us. Live and let live
Original post by Sycatonne23
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/31/male-refugees-settling-in-britain-need-to-be-formally-taught-how/

Thangham Debbonaire, a Labour MP who chairs the parliamentary group on refugees has said that male refugees who settle in the UK must be taught how to correctly treat women to avoid sexual harassment, citing integration as a key motivation and ensuring that new arrivals settle in with their communities properly. What on Earth is she implying? Why do male refugees need to be taught how to treat women properly? If male refugees must be taught how to treat women properly, then the suggestion is that their view of women may not be adequate to fit in with the expectations of a Western society because of their cultural background where women do not have the same status as they do here. Agree or disagree with the comments but the sentiment expressed seems eerily familiar to something another politician warned about before, except this politician was remorselessly castigated and criticised by most Remain backing politicians and even the Archibishop of Cantenbury. Yes, I am talking about Nigel Farage.

My question is this. When Nigel Farage said it, it was outrageous scaremongering. Farage's comments were made in a slightly different context of course, his assumption was that if the UK voted to remain, in a few years time many of the refugees in Germany and Austria and so on would have EU passports and could come to the UK under free movement, however the main point about male migrants being more prone to sexually harassing or assaulting women was the same. So when a Labour MP says pretty much the same thing (or hints at it) except outside a referendum context, why is it not branded as racist or scaremongering? And if you broadly agree with the MP's comments but would still attack Nigel for making the near same comments, justifying it with the pathetically predictable "but Nigel said it to sway the outcome of a national referendum", so-why is an assessment of the migrant crisis any less valid during a national referendum then after? Why doesn't Justin Welby step in and attach the same reprobation to her in the way he did to Nigel Farage? Where are the waves of left wing Labour supporting politicians, activists and Twitter warriors passing down condemnation? Maybe your conceited sense of moral superiority doesn't transcend partisan lines. Lefties, show yourselves and excoriate Thangham Debbonaire or you are indeed phoney hypocrites and your so called "compassionate values" are nothing but double dealing quackery.


Yup. You have summed up so much I've been going on about. the sense of a default monopoly over morality in insufferable- I suppose it goes along with their general entitlement mentality. Because he is a remainer, and patronising them, whilst wanting them here, they think it's different I guess. That or they are just lack any integrity and don't care about consistency, which is much more likely IMO.

'Thangham Debbonaire', what a perfect name for a Champagne Socialist NuLabourite. LOL
Original post by Sycatonne23
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/31/male-refugees-settling-in-britain-need-to-be-formally-taught-how/

Thangham Debbonaire, a Labour MP who chairs the parliamentary group on refugees has said that male refugees who settle in the UK must be taught how to correctly treat women to avoid sexual harassment, citing integration as a key motivation and ensuring that new arrivals settle in with their communities properly. What on Earth is she implying? Why do male refugees need to be taught how to treat women properly? If male refugees must be taught how to treat women properly, then the suggestion is that their view of women may not be adequate to fit in with the expectations of a Western society because of their cultural background where women do not have the same status as they do here. Agree or disagree with the comments but the sentiment expressed seems eerily familiar to something another politician warned about before, except this politician was remorselessly castigated and criticised by most Remain backing politicians and even the Archibishop of Cantenbury. Yes, I am talking about Nigel Farage.

My question is this. When Nigel Farage said it, it was outrageous scaremongering. Farage's comments were made in a slightly different context of course, his assumption was that if the UK voted to remain, in a few years time many of the refugees in Germany and Austria and so on would have EU passports and could come to the UK under free movement, however the main point about male migrants being more prone to sexually harassing or assaulting women was the same. So when a Labour MP says pretty much the same thing (or hints at it) except outside a referendum context, why is it not branded as racist or scaremongering? And if you broadly agree with the MP's comments but would still attack Nigel for making the near same comments, justifying it with the pathetically predictable "but Nigel said it to sway the outcome of a national referendum", so-why is an assessment of the migrant crisis any less valid during a national referendum then after? Why doesn't Justin Welby step in and attach the same reprobation to her in the way he did to Nigel Farage? Where are the waves of left wing Labour supporting politicians, activists and Twitter warriors passing down condemnation? Maybe your conceited sense of moral superiority doesn't transcend partisan lines. Lefties, show yourselves and excoriate Thangham Debbonaire or you are indeed phoney hypocrites and your so called "compassionate values" are nothing but double dealing quackery.


Original post by paul514
This should be funny reading the replies


Posted from TSR Mobile


Far-left wing doesn't represent centre-left, funny reply right paul?
Original post by skeptical_john
The difference is the labour MP is talking about refugees and Farage was talking about all immigration. Really not that complicated.

Many countries have things in place to help refugees
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35353310

There is no evidence normal legal immigration poses any risk to rape. That is why it was Farage's usual riding the tiger of xenophobia that caused the outrage


Nonsense, find me evidence Farage was talking about ALL immigration when he made the comments during the referendum. There's none because he wasn't, he was referring to the new arrivals of refugees and migrants from Syria and other parts of the world who were given the right to settle in Germany.
Original post by Mandem67
It still is racist and patronising to say that a whole group of people are somehow perverted and need to be taught to behave in a certain way that pleases us. Live and let live


I'm glad you condemn Thangham Debbonaire for being racist and patronising.
Original post by Mandem67
Live and let live


That attitude leads to such atrocities as FGM, 'honour' retribution, non-integration, religious vigilantism, and ghettoes.
Original post by Sycatonne23
Nonsense, find me evidence Farage was talking about ALL immigration when he made the comments during the referendum. There's none because he wasn't, he was referring to the new arrivals of refugees and migrants from Syria and other parts of the world who were given the right to settle in Germany.


Farage says if turkey joins eu there will be sex attacks, yet no evidence that turkish migrants pose rape threat only those from syria
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-turkey-brexit-eu-referendum_uk_57234a8ae4b0d6f7bed5d801

He does not qualify the difference between migrants and refugees like the labour MP does.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/04/nigel-farage-migrants-could-pose-sex-attack-threat-to-britain/

“The nuclear bomb this time would be about Cologne,” he told the Telegraph. Women may be at a particular risk from the “cultural” differences between British society and migrants, after gangs of migrant men allegedly launched a mass sexual attack against hundreds of women in Germany last New Year’s Eve, he said.

Either way they are too extremely different stories that bear no comparison.

A labour MP asking for funding to help assimilate refugees compared to someone who uses fear to make people scared of migrants. If you cant get your head round that then we are at an impasse.
Trying to put myself in the mind set of a middle east immigrant I would not mind someone telling me, who had my best interests at heart, that I needed to do some anti-sexism courses to understand EU culture.

I would mind a right wing, popularist telling me that I needed to do some anti-sexism classes as I would not think he had my best interests at heart.

I hope that helps.... Although one would have thought that rather obvious ....
Why is this website is full of ****wits :facepalm2:
Original post by Lord Samosa
Why is this website is full of ****wits :facepalm2:


You shouldn't talk about the religious like that. They can be very sensitive.
Original post by Good bloke
You shouldn't talk about the religious like that. They can be very sensitive.


*triggered alert*
Original post by skeptical_john
Farage says if turkey joins eu there will be sex attacks, yet no evidence that turkish migrants pose rape threat only those from syria
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-turkey-brexit-eu-referendum_uk_57234a8ae4b0d6f7bed5d801

He does not qualify the difference between migrants and refugees like the labour MP does.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/04/nigel-farage-migrants-could-pose-sex-attack-threat-to-britain/

“The nuclear bomb this time would be about Cologne,” he told the Telegraph. Women may be at a particular risk from the “cultural” differences between British society and migrants, after gangs of migrant men allegedly launched a mass sexual attack against hundreds of women in Germany last New Year’s Eve, he said.

Either way they are too extremely different stories that bear no comparison.

A labour MP asking for funding to help assimilate refugees compared to someone who uses fear to make people scared of migrants. If you cant get your head round that then we are at an impasse.


Read the first article properly and you'll find the headline is different from what Farage said. At no point did the article find a specific quote where Farage said Turkey joining the EU would increase the possibility of sex attacks, he only talked about the possibility of a "Turkish dominated Europe", the references to sex attacks were about Cologne and the refugees/migrants settling in Germany and Sweden.

Secondly, it wasn't a lie to use the term migrant, it would have been more accurate to say migrants+refugees but let's get something straight, not all of the arrivals to Europe on the boats are refugees, some of them are economic migrants. In fact in the first article it states that of the 58 arrested in relation to the Cologne attacks, 25 were Algerian, 21 Moroccan and three Tunisian. These are not countries which are in states of famine, war or mass political persecution, leaving a country because it is poor makes you an economic migrant, that's what Farage's point was when he said "migrants launching an attack in Cologne", because if the number arrested were in any way representative of the perpetrators as a whole then it would appear most of the attacks were carried out by migrants. You can play around with the wording if you like, but the fact of the matter is Farage was condemned because what he said was perceived to be racist. Is it not also racist for a Labour politician to assume that male refugees arriving in the UK need to be taught how to treat women? Okay she might have a different solution to Farage, which is to spend money on their assimilation rather than not allow them entry in the first place which is what Farage's solution would probably be, but she still made the supposedly racist assumption that he made. Doesn't she deserve condemnation for that? If you're going to apply your moral political standards equally, then you would condemn her for making the assumption in the first place.
Original post by FredOrJohn
Trying to put myself in the mind set of a middle east immigrant I would not mind someone telling me, who had my best interests at heart, that I needed to do some anti-sexism courses to understand EU culture.

I would mind a right wing, popularist telling me that I needed to do some anti-sexism classes as I would not think he had my best interests at heart.

I hope that helps.... Although one would have thought that rather obvious ....


Fair point.
Original post by Lord Samosa
Why is this website is full of ****wits :facepalm2:


Elaborate.
Original post by Sycatonne23
.


It's funny that the it was Andrea Leadsom the rights new hero was said about Farage in the article you discuss

However, Andrea Leadsom, a Treasury Minister and leading Brexit campaigner, has said his comments were "outright blatant scaremongering."

And then Gove

The Justice Secretary told ITV's Peston on Sunday: "He's made those remarks and I haven't made remarks like that and I won't make remarks like that."

So perhaps you should be asking them and not your hated liberals?
Original post by skeptical_john
It's funny that the it was Andrea Leadsom the rights new hero was said about Farage in the article you discuss

However, Andrea Leadsom, a Treasury Minister and leading Brexit campaigner, has said his comments were "outright blatant scaremongering."

And then Gove

The Justice Secretary told ITV's Peston on Sunday: "He's made those remarks and I haven't made remarks like that and I won't make remarks like that."

So perhaps you should be asking them and not your hated liberals?


Fair point. Although the overwhelming majority who condemned Farage were leftie liberal remainers. Gove and Leadsom probably only joined the condemnation for purposes of political expediency. And I would say that ANYONE who condemned Farage's comments should also condemn this MP's comments, regardless of political affiliation. So I take it now, that you condemn the comments made by Thangham Debbonaire as racist at best, and scaremongering at worst?
Original post by Sycatonne23
Fair point. Although the overwhelming majority who condemned Farage were leftie liberal remainers. Gove and Leadsom probably only joined the condemnation for purposes of political expediency. And I would say that ANYONE who condemned Farage's comments should also condemn this MP's comments, regardless of political affiliation. So I take it now, that you condemn the comments made by Thangham Debbonaire as racist at best, and scaremongering at worst?


ill repeat my earlier assertion

"
Either way they are too extremely different stories that bear no comparison.

"A labour MP asking for funding to help assimilate refugees compared to someone who uses fear to make people scared of migrants. If you cant get your head round that then we are at an impasse. "

There's no shortage of hypocrisy on the left. Just look at what's going on with left wing grandstander Shami Chakrabarti. But there is none to be found here.

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