Want to campaign for the 16 year old vote?

No, I do not want to campaign for 16 and 17 year olds to vote simply because of their ideologies (most older people who want 16 and 17 to vote do so because the left find it hard to win elections otherwise methinks) and would rather campaign to stop 18, 19, and 20 voting. The most common argument I hear for 16 and 17 voting very easily regresses to truly universal suffrage, and I don't think I want babies voting tyvm.

Reply 163

Original post by Alextaylor6

if you get married at 16 you are anything but mature lmao, those rights are completely different to politics

No they're not completely different
All these right people have combine to whether they can have other rights
for example if you can't buy a house then you can't claim housing benefits
And how can you judge people for getting married at 16? Sure I wouldn't do it...but that doesn't mean that anyone else who does it is dumb or an idiot

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Reply 164

Original post by Alextaylor6

You sound like one.
There never will be gender equality.
No.
There needs to be a line drawn and 18 is it, deal with it. Like I've said 3 times before there are too many stupid people

Right well let's all give up then.
Cause according to mr Taylor over here there will never be gender equality, racial equality, age equality...so don't bother trying to even improve it.
Okay for you since youre a guy.
Maybe you don't have sister.
Maybe you do but you just don't care about her. Who knows? And frankly who cares?
In my opinion the idea of yoj having a vote when you're 18 is far more terrifying than the idea of any 16 year old I know voting!!
Lucky for me (and the rest of Britains females) the majority of men don't agree with you.
And the fact that you assume I'm a trigger feminist just because I'm a girl is actually disgusting.
There are too many stupid people may be true (although I don't think it is)
But that's not what you are arguing for! You're saying that there are more stupid people aged 16-18 than 18+
18 is the line, I know! We're saying we should change it.
You're response is "I'd rather be sexist and rude than actually going to the effort of changing what is wrong. Essentially you agree with changing it to 18 you just can't be bothered to do anything about it so just 'deal with it'

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(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 165

Original post by issy.roberts

Oh and finally an argument: the slippery slope argument.
True, perhaps it will lead to more people speaking up.
But the law already recognises that 16 year olds are mature enough to get married, get a job, claim some kinds of benefits....so why are they not mature enough to vote?
15 year olds don't have these rights.
Thats the difference.
Do you think that 16 year olds should not be allowed to have these rights?

I do love when people say "look at muh rights," 16 year olds don't actually get that many rights, the majority of rights truly gained still require consent until...18.

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Reply 166

Original post by Jammy Duel

I do love when people say "look at muh rights," 16 year olds don't actually get that many rights, the majority of rights truly gained still require consent until...18.

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I'm glad I'm making you happy..
You know you're right
But the simple fact that there is wrong elsewhere does not mean one cannot do some right
For example just because there are university fees does not mean one should not campaign for bursaries

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Reply 167

Alextaylor6

14

Original post by issy.roberts

Right well let's all give up then.
Cause according to mr Taylor over here there will never be gender equality, racial equality, age equality...so don't bother trying to even improve it.
Okay for you since youre a guy.
Maybe you don't have sister.
Maybe you do but you just don't care about her. Who knows? And frankly who cares?
In my opinion the idea of yoj having a vote when you're 18 is far more terrifying than the idea of any 16 year old I know voting!!
Lucky for me (and the rest of Britains females) the majority of men don't agree with you.
And the fact that you assume I'm a trigger feminist just because I'm a girl is actually disgusting.
There are too many stupid people may be true (although I don't think it is)
But that's not what you are arguing for! You're saying that there are more stupid people aged 16-18 than 18+
18 is the line, I know! We're saying we should change it.
You're response is "I'd rather be sexist and rude than actually going to the effort of changing what is wrong. Essentially you agree with changing it to 18 you just can't be bothered to do anything about it so just 'deal with it'

Posted from TSR Mobile

Actually things are pretty equal right now, if anything its in favour of women. After all women's cancers receive 15 times more funding than men's. 77% of homicide victims are men. 80% of all suicides are men. Men loose custody in 84% of divorces. 60-80% of the homeless are men. Men make up 94% of work suicides. Just to name a few. Like I said, there will never be equality we do not live in utopia.

Yes I have a sister but she's not a beta cuck like you.

Most people dislike feminists, just saying. So yes you are wrong again.

No I didn't say that, my argument is that there are too may stupid people voting, we don't need more of them..

GG, you are getting boring now : )

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 168

Original post by issy.roberts

I'm glad I'm making you happy..
You know you're right
But the simple fact that there is wrong elsewhere does not mean one cannot do some right
For example just because there are university fees does not mean one should not campaign for bursaries

Posted from TSR Mobile

So what is the relevant wrong elsewhere and what exactly is "right" about extending an already overextended franchise?

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Reply 169

Original post by Jammy Duel

So what is the relevant wrong elsewhere and what exactly is "right" about extending an already overextended franchise?

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I'm not saying it is wrong.
What I'm saying however is that lets say that it is wrong that 16+ do not get more rights that doesn't mean that they shouldn't get a vote.
Do you see what I mean?

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Reply 170

Original post by Alextaylor6

Actually things are pretty equal right now, if anything its in favour of women. After all women's cancers receive 15 times more funding than men's. 77% of homicide victims are men. 80% of all suicides are men. Men loose custody in 84% of divorces. 60-80% of the homeless are men. Men make up 94% of work suicides. Just to name a few. Like I said, there will never be equality we do not live in utopia.

Yes I have a sister but she's not a beta cuck like you.

Most people dislike feminists, just saying. So yes you are wrong again.

No I didn't say that, my argument is that there are too may stupid people voting, we don't need more of them..

GG, you are getting boring now : )

So as you are struggling to find any evidence of inequality for sexes in the Uk, I took the liberty of providing some for you (you can thank me for prevention you from looking like an idiot the next time you made that statement):

44% of women in the UK have experienced sexual or physical violence since they were 15 years old.

30% of women who have been in a relationship experienced some form of sexual or physical abide from their partner.

38% of all murders of women worldwide are committed by a women's intimate partner.

80% of the 1.2 million children trafficked into slavery each year are girls

In the U.K the gender pay back for full
time work is 15% and for part time work
it is 35%.

Only 22% of seats in parliament are female.

Just because the man loses custody in 84% of cases does not show there is sexism. Men are 3 times more likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs than females. Perhaps this is why they are homeless more? Why they lose custody?

However at least we agree on something here namely that the suicide problem with males is a problem. Though how it reflects on equality for women I'm not quite sure (though I'm sure you are)...

Not quite sure what you mean by me being a beta cuck....maybe you want to look up what it means before using it.....and j hope that when your sister never reads this cause working by probability she's gonna be abused by a male and knows here brother doesn't think that there's sexism going on...

Leaving that to one side: don't you think that by allowing more 'idiots' in you're also going to gain more clever people too?

Also you say we already have "too many idiots" does that mean you actually are in Favor of dictatorships and not democracies. Do you think that the negatives of having "idiots" outweighs the positives of everyone having a vote

You do for the youth....

As to your fact about most people disliking feminists could you direct me to where you found that very vague statistic or is that just your sexist, egotistical view again?

Again, I bet you're sister is happy that you don't think you and her are equal.
Do you think she should be allowed to go to school? Get a job?
Feminists: people who believe in equal rights for all

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Reply 171

The_Opinion

Original post by issy.roberts

So as you are struggling to find any evidence of inequality for sexes in the Uk, I took the liberty of providing some for you (you can thank me for prevention you from looking like an idiot the next time you made that statement):

44% of women in the UK have experienced sexual or physical violence since they were 15 years old.

30% of women who have been in a relationship experienced some form of sexual or physical abide from their partner.

38% of all murders of women worldwide are committed by a women's intimate partner.

80% of the 1.2 million children trafficked into slavery each year are girls

In the U.K the gender pay back for full
time work is 15% and for part time work
it is 35%.

Only 22% of seats in parliament are female.

Just because the man loses custody in 84% of cases does not show there is sexism. Men are 3 times more likely to be addicted to alcohol and drugs than females. Perhaps this is why they are homeless more? Why they lose custody?

However at least we agree on something here namely that the suicide problem with males is a problem. Though how it reflects on equality for women I'm not quite sure (though I'm sure you are)...

Not quite sure what you mean by me being a beta cuck....maybe you want to look up what it means before using it.....and j hope that when your sister never reads this cause working by probability she's gonna be abused by a male and knows here brother doesn't think that there's sexism going on...

Leaving that to one side: don't you think that by allowing more 'idiots' in you're also going to gain more clever people too?

Also you say we already have "too many idiots" does that mean you actually are in Favor of dictatorships and not democracies. Do you think that the negatives of having "idiots" outweighs the positives of everyone having a vote

You do for the youth....

As to your fact about most people disliking feminists could you direct me to where you found that very vague statistic or is that just your sexist, egotistical view again?

Again, I bet you're sister is happy that you don't think you and her are equal.
Do you think she should be allowed to go to school? Get a job?
Feminists: people who believe in equal rights for all

Posted from TSR Mobile

In the U.K the gender pay back for full
time work is 15% and for part time work
it is 35%.

Only 22% of seats in parliament are female

Both of these points are very silly points to make. They do not consider women's choices / biological differences e.g. having children. It is hard to take anybody seriously who makes such comments.

Reply 172

username1148663

Original post by The_Opinion

Many people including myself would support raising the age of voting, thus ensuring that voters do have even more life experience.

I would but it presents a massive problem.

Taxed without representation as you have no say in who's elected.

You could say the same about a 16 year old but it's highly unlikely they are paying much tax if any at all

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Reply 173

The_Opinion

Original post by paul514

I would but it presents a massive problem.

Taxed without representation as you have no say in who's elected.

You could say the same about a 16 year old but it's highly unlikely they are paying much tax if any at all

Posted from TSR Mobile

Same applies to 18 year olds, the vast majority pay no tax, and the ones that do pay a very small amount.

And to those that would pay tax for a or 3 years with out being able to vote, tough. It would give them chance to get annoyed about how their tax is spent on pointless and wasteful things.

Reply 174

Original post by The_Opinion

In the U.K the gender pay back for full
time work is 15% and for part time work
it is 35%.

Only 22% of seats in parliament are female

Both of these points are very silly points to make. They do not consider women's choices / biological differences e.g. having children. It is hard to take anybody seriously who makes such comments.

Please can you explain to me how a biological difference (having kids) explains a gender pay gap?
And the seats in parliament....well Ruanda are higher than us. We are the 3rd worse in Europe
So you are saying that Britain is the country with the most moms? Please not also having a child does not prevent you from working. That's being a stay at home mum.
It's not a biological difference it's a life choice
Just like being a stay at home dad is a life choice
And you can make a point without being so rude
I hope you can take people seriously who state facts you disagree...if you can't it's going to make future life very difficult for you

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Reply 175

Original post by paul514

I would but it presents a massive problem.

Taxed without representation as you have no say in who's elected.

You could say the same about a 16 year old but it's highly unlikely they are paying much tax if any at all

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Fair and true point

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Reply 176

The_Opinion

Original post by issy.roberts

Please can you explain to me how a biological difference (having kids) explains a gender pay gap?
And the seats in parliament....well Ruanda are higher than us. We are the 3rd worse in Europe
So you are saying that Britain is the country with the most moms? Please not also having a child does not prevent you from working. That's being a stay at home mum.
It's not a biological difference it's a life choice
Just like being a stay at home dad is a life choice
And you can make a point without being so rude
I hope you can take people seriously who state facts you disagree...if you can't it's going to make future life very difficult for you

Posted from TSR Mobile

It is called common sense.

1st, Women often have children, perhaps you don't know this. Men don't have children, perhaps you also don't know this. When a woman has a child, she usually stops working for a while, sometimes several years. The man does not have children, so generally will not stop working. He will then go on to have a good career, getting promoted and gaining a higher salary. This is not hard to understand.

2nd, the ratio of men and women as MP's doesn't actually matter, and again, you are forgetting key issues, men and women are not the exact same, they have different interests, hobbies and skills, all of which effect which jobs they are most likely to apply for and perform successfully.

There are more female primary school teachers than male, do I claim that it is a problem? No, I don't, it is the result of women applying more for those positions, not the sign of some conspiracy.

You need to increase your general knowledge and rationality skills.

Reply 177

Hughey89

I'm 26 and was originally dreading being an older Conservative/Libertarian minded capitalist at University come September.

This thread has made me feel a little bit more at ease.

Reply 178

moggis

18

Original post by issy.roberts

No they're not completely different
All these right people have combine to whether they can have other rights
for example if you can't buy a house then you can't claim housing benefits
And how can you judge people for getting married at 16? Sure I wouldn't do it...but that doesn't mean that anyone else who does it is dumb or an idiot

Posted from TSR Mobile

I havnt read all of this thread but you've done enough to win the argument imao.

It's not an issue I particularly care about but there is one reason over and above anything I saw on this thread that I think demands that 16 year old should be given the vote.

Our political system is hugely swayed towards those who own property.
And not enough people in government really give a damn.
And the reason they don't,apart from the fact that most MPs benefit from the housing crisis ,is because there are too many property owning voters compared to non property owning voters.

One way to alleviate this gross unfairness in our system is to allow 16 year olds to vote.

The only thing is though it really won't make much difference at all to the status quo.

Not under our fptp system.

As for people saying there are too many idiotic 16 year olds or already too many idiots voting ,there's a lot I could say about that but suffice it to say that if 'idiots' manage to vote in a government that does really badly would they not also vote them out again?
Or do people think idiots like having less money etc?

Anyway, if this country turns out to be significantly worse off by voting leave in the referendum who will be the bigger idiot- Oxford educated Cameron who chose to put a referendum in the Tory manifesto or an ordinary leave voter whose vote made not one iota of difference to the outcome?

I can certainly say that when I observe modern (mainly British) society Im never entirely sure who the smart people are.

Reply 179