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Are we past our national leadership elections being decided by the few?

Take a look at the petition and sign up if you agree that our National leaders should be chosen by a national vote once the party concerned offers up two or three candidates from its members.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/160398
Original post by Jonathan P
Take a look at the petition and sign up if you agree that our National leaders should be chosen by a national vote once the party concerned offers up two or three candidates from its members.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/160398


Obviously, this is a horrendous idea. People choosing the leader of the party they won't vote for, for obvious reasons will be tactical and bad for politics, giving the worst candidates at each election. And as the political and media class has shown by opposition leaders they support, it will lead to an even further narrowing of 'acceptable' policies and 'democratic' choice, just when people want the opposite.

I thought this thread was going to be about party leaders chosen by membership not the MP's, as in Corbyns case, for all parties. Now that would be democracy.

What you are proposing is a simply dreadful idea.
Reply 2
Avatar for Jonathan P
Jonathan P
OP
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
Obviously, this is a horrendous idea. People choosing the leader of the party they won't vote for, for obvious reasons will be tactical and bad for politics, giving the worst candidates at each election. And as the political and media class has shown by opposition leaders they support, it will lead to an even further narrowing of 'acceptable' policies and 'democratic' choice, just when people want the opposite.

I thought this thread was going to be about party leaders chosen by membership not the MP's, as in Corbyns case, for all parties. Now that would be democracy.

What you are proposing is a simply dreadful idea.


Slightly better than the current unrest we've seen since the unrest in both main political parties.
The positives would be endless and the end result would be far more stable politics in the UK.
Original post by Jonathan P
Slightly better than the current unrest we've seen since the unrest in both main political parties.
The positives would be endless and the end result would be far more stable politics in the UK.


Utter nonsense. It would be an even worse consolidation of the political consensus than before, and it would corrupt the political process by allowing tactical votes on other sides candidates. It is just a terrible idea, over complicated and making everything worse. It's anti-democratic.

I am guessing you are a social and economic liberal who is pro-EU, and therefore liked the anti-democratic neoliberal stitch up of the last 20 years?
Reply 4
Avatar for Jonathan P
Jonathan P
OP
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
Utter nonsense. It would be an even worse consolidation of the political consensus than before, and it would corrupt the political process by allowing tactical votes on other sides candidates. It is just a terrible idea, over complicated and making everything worse. It's anti-democratic.

I am guessing you are a social and economic liberal who is pro-EU, and therefore liked the anti-democratic neoliberal stitch up of the last 20 years?


You couldnt be further from the truth!

What happened to good old fashioned debating? Your above comment makes Putins interpretation of democracy look like a walk in the park.

Sensible people will debate - rather than the ranting seen above.
Original post by Jonathan P
Sensible people will debate - rather than the ranting seen above.


I used to believe this, then the referendum happened. Myth: busted
Original post by Jonathan P
You couldnt be further from the truth!

What happened to good old fashioned debating? Your above comment makes Putins interpretation of democracy look like a walk in the park.

Sensible people will debate - rather than the ranting seen above.


It's ludicrous. If people who aren't voting for a party can decide the leader, then foreigners should vote for who wins a countries election. The two are exactly morally equivalent and equal in democratic terms. Let's say the US can vote in our elections, you happy for electoral outcomes more right wing than your politics every single time?
Reply 7
Avatar for Jonathan P
Jonathan P
OP
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
It's ludicrous. If people who aren't voting for a party can decide the leader, then foreigners should vote for who wins a countries election. The two are exactly morally equivalent and equal in democratic terms. Let's say the US can vote in our elections, you happy for electoral outcomes more right wing than your politics every single time?

The US vote in their own elections - incidently in very similar way to my proposal.

We may have reservations regarding that process? but just wait and see how it pans out in November...
Original post by Jonathan P
The US vote in their own elections - incidently in very similar way to my proposal.

We may have reservations regarding that process? but just wait and see how it pans out in November...


What? Not a very clear post. Post the petition if you want, I don't think it's well thought through at all. If you like democracy and dislike the 'disconnect' then you will be sorely disappointed with the results. You've just advocated what is the political classes 'post-democratic era' (Jack Straw) dream.
Reply 9
Avatar for Jonathan P
Jonathan P
OP
Original post by SaucissonSecCy
What? Not a very clear post. Post the petition if you want, I don't think it's well thought through at all. If you like democracy and dislike the 'disconnect' then you will be sorely disappointed with the results. You've just advocated what is the political classes 'post-democratic era' (Jack Straw) dream.


I suggest you take some time to read up on British political history, the amount of party leaders that have become Prime Minister without a national vote - democratic? not!.....and the history of American politics and the reason the for the Primaries.

Once you've read 10% of that you will understand my previous post.
Reply 10
Avatar for viffer
viffer
16
No thank you.

I prefer to base my decision on the party manifestos and let the elected MPs decide who is best to lead their 'team'

As others have said, letting the electorate as a whole decide the captain of the team they don't support is stoopid.

We have had enough of importing daft ideas and habits from across the pond.

Back to the drawing board
Reply 11
Avatar for Jonathan P
Jonathan P
OP
You clearly havent read the petition.

I will leave you to your manifestos for what they're worth.
History speaks for itself.
Original post by Jonathan P
Take a look at the petition and sign up if you agree that our National leaders should be chosen by a national vote once the party concerned offers up two or three candidates from its members.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/160398


Disagree strongly.

You are perfectly free to join the relevant political party and then get the right to vote. Being a member of the party is an importnat aspect otherwise you will get people without an interests boting for soemthing that doesnt interest them.

You get your chance to have a say when the general election comes round.

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