Was a bit bored and decided to make a tier listing for all the universities in the UK

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I'm well read in the subject of social mobility. Here are a few examples of recent articles, I can recommend a few books if interested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35641061
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/27/elitist-britain-cabinet-mps-oxbridge-private-independent-schools_n_5723662.html
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/myth-meritocracy-review-james-bloodworths-polemic-shows-britains-level-playing-field-lie-1561771
http://www.legalcheek.com/2016/02/research-over-70-of-top-judges-and-barristers-are-privately-educated-or-oxbridge-elite/

"all other things being equal" is a hypothetical term used in science. Obviously they never are but it's how you try and determine which variables make a difference.

My original point is that your degree doesn't matter years down the line. Choosing professions with skewed entry profiles is of course going to produce skewed profiles 5 years down the line. And before you say it, I'm of the opinion that the reason those professions are so lop sided is because of a high financial barrier to entry; not because of degree institution.

If you are so in favour of social mobility then stating that certain degrees will always confer an advantage is a self fulfilling prophecy; because people on here from 'lower' uni's will not bother applying for jobs because they have been told they stand no chance. 10 years ago on here, I was one of those people.

I'm amazed that you think people are just handing out high flying jobs to their mates like confetti. If they did that, then very quickly the employers funding these jobs would be headed south.

Original post by Princepieman

As a third party, I think you fit that description more than skeptical

Posted from TSR Mobile

I am actually amazed that a TSR 'support worker' is perpetuating the myth that certain degrees are better than others. Its one thing for people like OP to attempt to do it, its quite another to be sanctioned by someone associated with the site.

I'm probably the only person in this thread who has actually hired an oxbridge grad. Last year I took on an oxford medicine grad. He was great at interview, but couldn't do the actual job to save his life. When a permanent position came up later in the year, I gave it to an applicant who had gone to a uni somewhere in the relegation zone of the league tables because he could actually do the job I needed him to do. I'm disappointed in myself obviously for being fooled at interview, but this is kind of my point; an oxbridge degree might get your foot in the door, but it wont keep it there if you aren't good enough.

Anyway princepieman, tell me, what is your substantial experience of the world then?

Reply 61

Snufkin

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by KardasDragon

I guess im going to respond en mass here.

I have realised I've made a few mistakes here and there, especially after consulting the World Rankings Tables. I'm posting a revised version here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12psNterURYtA5M8DO8BZQk7tZA8_UNDkjhtypt1vwuk/edit#gid=0

The only member of Tier 2 that I would consider putting above are LSE and Imperial. Durham, Warwick, Bristol are NO DIFFERENT to Cardiff and Liverpool (seriously stop bashing these). Yes Durham may be better at law, but Cardiff can trump it in the pharmacy department.
All Tier 2s are very similar in the way they are bulit and run. UCL and King's are no different to the rest of the pack.

I've since moved up most of the speciality universities to Tier 3 and might even put a few in Tier 2. SOAS is not moving though. Tier 4 is now made of Universities that have atleast one world class subject (often more) but fall behind in most others. Tier 5 are those that have a top tier domestic-level subject or score better overall. Tier 6 is unchanged. Tier 7 is now comprised Tier 6s that scored extrememly poorly in Student Experience Surveys. Academically they might be Tier 6, but all indicators are showing that there is always a better choice.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not getting dragged into another pointless debate where I have to defend UCL (what is it about TSR that breeds UCL-hate?), suffice to say you're wrong.

Reply 62

ronnydandam

Original post by trinculo

this is like a 40 year old virgin making a list of which instagram models and film stars he'd like to have sex with the most.

looooooooooool

Reply 63

lucabrasi98

I think Imperial and LSE deserves their own tier behind Cambridge and Oxford. Then shift the rest of the unis tier backwards. And also move Liverpool back an extra tier.

Original post by Snufkin

It's not hate. They're just overrated. And given the grades needed to get in, you might as well apply to a better uni with the same grade requirements

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 64

Wired_1800

My version is this:

Tier 1

Self explanatory.

University of Oxford

University of Cambridge

Imperial College, London

University of Manchester

University College London

London School of Economics

I don't mind the other ones, but I think that Oxbridge and some London Universities are in the same tier. You should research about the Golden Triangle.

Reply 65

lucabrasi98

Original post by Wired_1800

I don't understand manchester. In some rankings they're around 7th in the country. In others they're around 20th. All the other unis are consistent with their rankings in different sites

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 66

Wired_1800

Original post by lucabrasi98

I don't understand manchester. In some rankings they're around 7th in the country. In others they're around 20th. All the other unis are consistent with their rankings in different sites

I think Manchester's quality is top notch. It should be classed as Tier 1, but many people, especially on TSR, seem to despise Manchester.

Reply 67

math42

Original post by Wired_1800

I think Manchester's quality is top notch. It should be classed as Tier 1, but many people, especially on TSR, seem to despise Manchester.

I don't despise Manchester but I fail to see what is special about it relative to places like Bristol, Durham, Warwick, KCL, St Andrew's. It's great for physics, I know that much, but I don't see anything overall special about it, good industry connections or what (to be fair I have a relative in his late 20s who I think went to Manchester and quickly got an excellent job)?

Reply 68

Wired_1800

Original post by 1 8 13 20 42

Facilities are great, industry contacts are top notch and it has an overall decent rating as a University. The rankings are often biased towards Oxbridge and London, but some recognise that Manchester is top notch.

Reply 69

_Fergo

Original post by Wired_1800

It seriously can't be more obvious that you are/were at Manchester. The bias is real.

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Reply 70

Wired_1800

Original post by *Stefan*

It seriously can't be more obvious that you are/were at Manchester. The bias is real.

Posted from TSR Mobile

It is not bias, it is the reality of how good Manchester really is.

Reply 71

_Fergo

Original post by Wired_1800

It is not bias, it is the reality of how good Manchester really is.

Manchester is good. Alongside LSE/ICL (let alone Oxbridge)? Not in a thousand years.

Thanks for the laugh though.

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Reply 72

Wired_1800

Original post by *Stefan*

Manchester is good. Alongside LSE/ICL (let alone Oxbridge)? Not in a thousand years.

Thanks for the laugh though.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Frankly, I think Manchester is a top University. It is not a joke, but it is odd that you see it as being a joke. It is fair. A university's reputation is down to how people see it.

Reply 73

_Fergo

Original post by Wired_1800

Frankly, I think Manchester is a top University. It is not a joke, but it is odd that you see it as being a joke. It is fair. A university's reputation is down to how people see it.

You think it's top because you went there.

It's the definition of bias.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 74

Wired_1800

Original post by *Stefan*

You think it's top because you went there.

It's the definition of bias.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Believe what you want, mate. To me, it is not bias.

Reply 75

lucabrasi98

Original post by Wired_1800

I think Manchester's quality is top notch. It should be classed as Tier 1, but many people, especially on TSR, seem to despise Manchester.

I like it too. But you have to be crazy to class it in the same bracket as LSE, Imperial or Oxbridge. They're some of the best institutions on the planet. Not just the UK.

Original post by 1 8 13 20 42

I heard their computer science and engineering departments were really good too. Plus the uni is so massive that I wouldn't be surprised if they had good industry connections. But threads like this will always start controversy because people get personally offended when others don't compliment the uni they attend.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 76

Wired_1800

Original post by lucabrasi98

I like it too. But you have to be crazy to class it in the same bracket as LSE, Imperial or Oxbridge. They're some of the best institutions on the planet. Not just the UK.

I heard their computer science and engineering departments were really good too. Plus the uni is so massive that I wouldn't be surprised if they had good industry connections. But threads like this will always start controversy because people get personally offended when others don't compliment the uni they attend.

Manchester is part of the best institutions on the planet.

Here is a World Ranking from QS that shows Manchester to be the 33rd Best University in the World and one of the Best in Europe.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2015#sorting=rank+region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=

Like I said, in the UK, things are abit biased.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 77

username738914

Original post by Mathmoji

*I am actually amazed that a TSR 'support worker' is perpetuating the myth that certain degrees are better than others. Its one thing for people like OP to attempt to do it, its quite another to be sanctioned by someone associated with the site.

I'm probably the only person in this thread who has actually hired an oxbridge grad. Last year I took on an oxford medicine grad. He was great at interview, but couldn't do the actual job to save his life. When a permanent position came up later in the year, I gave it to an applicant who had gone to a uni somewhere in the relegation zone of the league tables because he could actually do the job I needed him to do. I'm disappointed in myself obviously for being fooled at interview, but this is kind of my point; an oxbridge degree might get your foot in the door, but it wont keep it there if you aren't good enough.

Anyway princepieman, tell me, what is your substantial experience of the world then?

Never agreed with the bit in bold and I still don't agree with it. That (albeit snide) comment was more about the networks point the prior poster made, which is absolutely correct. Going to Oxbridge won't guarantee you a job, no but it does place you in a group of students that have a high probability of doing well in their careers (mainly because of the traits that got them into Oxbridge in the first place), and because of this it would be say, much easier, for someone who was former college buddies with a now mid-senior level manager to get an interview (later on in life that is) at a certain company than it would be for someone who applied without a pull whatsoever.

That was the point. ^

Generally, I'd agree with your post and example, but some industries and some firms within those industries can be quite 'snooty' when it comes to university brand. By and large it's not as important (bar the networking case above/the exceptions like top end law, finance, consulting etc..) as people make it out to be.

Well, I've ran 2 companies (alongside school) before and have hired ~15 people all told. But that's not really important.
*

Reply 78

alexp98

Leicester is probably rated above Liverpool now and Surrey too

Reply 79

JimmyParker

I got places at 4 different tier 2 universities (3 in my initial application, and 2 others offered me places in clearence) - but cause I didn't get given the grades I wanted (Oxford), I got stressed and went for the easiest option which was my back up option number 5..... which is in tier 5.... got I hate my life. Oh well, one I get this stupid bachelors out of the way, I will drop out and go somewhere better for my masters.