Should trans people be allowed to receive free reassignment surgery on the NHS?

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Wel, if you say no to gender reassignment, then you're heading down a slippery slope.

I've got health problems which aren't life threatening. But they do affect my quality of life. Should they not be treated too?

Reply 41

cherryred90s

Original post by Tiger Rag

Mental health problems should be treated. Gender reassignment surgery is purely physical.

Reply 42

Tiger Rag

Original post by cherryred90s

Mental health problems should be treated. Gender reassignment surgery is purely physical.

Gender dysmorphia is a mental health problem.

Reply 43

97Y

If it's stuff like reassignment, addiction, jumping off a building because you're drunk you should be footed with the bill

We shouldn't be funding all this crap with people's taxes

Reply 44

tanyapotter

Original post by cherryred90s

Yes and that is what should be treated. Gender reassignment surgery isn't a cure for depression

Sounds like you think the solution is to make people stop being trans and to help them to "accept" the gender they were born with... which is ominously similar to conversion therapy (an extremely transphobic and unethical practice which is illegal in many countries). Gender reassignment surgery is a way to treat gender dysphoria - what don't you understand about that?

Reply 45

cherryred90s

Original post by tanyapotter

Wow, talk about jumping to conclusions. who said anything about making people stop being trans? you don't have to have gender reassignment surgery to qualify as trans. Also, I'm pretty sure that anyone wanting the surgery is recommended to speak to a health care professional in the form of counselling and what not. It's a big change that some trans people may not want to undergo. Physical Surgery isn't a direct cure of a mental health problem. Can you cure depression with surgery? Can you cure schizophrenia with surgery? Can you cure bipolar disorder with surgery? Nobody is saying that you can't have gender reassignment surgery, but being that it is cosmetic, pay for it yourself.

Reply 46

username1533709

Wow,I thought TSR was meant to be the liberal tolerant place where everyone has libertarian views .So many hypocrites on this thread.

Gender dysphoria is a real, genuine condition and reassignment surgery should be allowed free on the NHS.Doing this is far more cheaper than treating the many mental health problems like depression that follows if they don't get the surgery.Those who say its expensive should realise its like saying vaccines are economic waste of time and we should just treat the diseases themselves.

Those saying we should spend on "more deserving " things like cancer and mental health can't see the irony.Since it was this kind of thinking that led to infectious diseases,cancer etc.being prioritised over mental health ,which was and still is neglected.
So much transphobia on this thread.

Reply 47

tanyapotter

Original post by cherryred90s

Why would you need to cure schizophrenia or bipolar disorder with surgery? Gender dysphoria is directly related to and often dominated by unwanted physical features, and bipolar disorder/schizophrenia are not. Make this simple distinction, please.

Reply 48

1010marina

Is there any data on historical transgender cases? Or is it just now we have the option for surgery that people believe they are in the wrong body more? I'd really be interested if anybody could point me in the right direction ^^

Anyway, I think higher priority should be given to treatments for 'physical' medical problems such as cancer, etc. I think it's desperately sad that the NHS can't afford some treatments for cancer that work better/more efficiently/will give a few extra years into life, yet pay for treatments such as this... Especially when there's the opportunity to regret it, which some do..

I realise there is a lot of taboo surrounding talking about trans people because the arguments for surgery tend to be depression, mental health, etc., which are of course normally conditions and problems that try to treat. But if you suggest treating trans people, it can be quite offensive. So, trying my best to be PC, I think that: a lot of people who would have been content to just cross dress or be 'gender fluid' in the past are now contemplating sex changes and saying they *need* one when they would probably be fine without. I don't deny that there are a small portion that genuinely feel 'made wrong'... But I think a huge number of people have discovered all these new gender options such as gender fluid, agender, which are being normalised, and I'm not sure a lot of these people truly know what they are/should be/want to be anymore.

I'm not really sure where I stand on this issue overall because I honestly believe normalising it makes it worse - I'm female, but have always been quite 'tomboyish', if I'd known about 'gender fluidity' five or six years ago I'd probably have identified as such. But now I just think you can be a tomboy or an effeminate bloke without having to label it.

I'd say:
An option for it to be on the NHS if it can be shown that not having the surgery would lead to a significant drop in quality of life...

But only for over 18s. I'm sick of seeing young children being given hormones. At 8/9/10 you are simply too young to know what you will want to be in the future.

Reply 49

limetang

Original post by tanyapotter

I mean ... herein lies the problem. The evidence is coming out now that gender reassignment surgery is not a particularly brilliant way for treating this condition. The surgeon who pioneered the technique at Johns Hopkins doesn't perform it anymore for that reason.

My opposition to this has nothing to do with transphobia, it's quite the opposite situation in fact. My opposition comes from the fact that I think facilitating trans people in this is unkind. *

Reply 50

BRONZEMEDAL1

Original post by A Mysterious Lord

No - being trans may not be a choice but having reassignment surgery is.

Good point. I believe it is an orientation.

Reply 51

cherryred90s

Original post by tanyapotter

Why would you need to cure schizophrenia or bipolar disorder with surgery? Gender dysphoria is directly related to and dominated by unwanted physical features, and bipolar disorder/schizophrenia are not. Make this simple distinction, please.

My point is that like schizophrenia/depression, gender dysphoria is a mental health issue. Mental health problems cannot be cured via surgery. A symptom of gender dysphoria is wanting gender reassignment surgery. not everyone with gender dysphoria will want to undergo that surgery. There are alternatives, it is not the only solution.

If a schizophrenic expressed that they are unhappy being human and would rather be a mouse, should the NHS fund the surgery? And if successful, would they no longer be schizophrenic?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 52

Another

As far as I'm concerned, a man who drank himself to liver failure, smoked himself to lung cancer, ate himself to diabetes, did that entirely of his own free will. And yet the NHS still pays for treats out of taxpayers money.

Gender reassignment is a minimal cost compared to that!

Reply 53

Ezme39

Original post by cherryred90s

Let's say I'm depressed as a human and believe that I was born in the wrong body, and would be much happier if I could live as a cat. Should the NHS fund treatment for me to have surgery to enhance my human features so that I look like a cat?

That's hardly the same, but let's break it down for the sake of it.

1- are there a significant number of people suffering because they feel this way? If yes, there should be a treatment of sort- so this applies to both.
2- what is the diagnosis? Gender dysmorphia is a widely recognised condition. Wanting to be a cat sounds like a different kind of mental health condition, the likes of which are ruled out in the assessment of a trans person.
3- what is an appropriate solution? Becoming cat-like does not enable someone to fit in with society and carry on functioning, whereas transitioning does. Not all trans people want surgery, and they often have to wait a long time for it, so it is not taken lightly.
Both would be treated by the NHS, but not in the same way as it is not appropriate.

Reply 54

Ezme39

Original post by cherryred90s

What evidence to you have that surgery is not a cure of gender dysmorphia? Suicide and self harm are significantly lowered, which is a successful outcome.

Reply 55

tanyapotter

Original post by cherryred90s

Are you a mental health professional? If not, then how can you make the claim that gender dysphoria cannot be cured by surgery?

Also, wanting gender reassignment surgery is not a "symptom" of gender dysphoria. Is wanting to be happy a symptom of depression? No. Constantly being sad is.

You're making a ridiculous comparison to schizophrenia. To even compare transgenderism with wanting to be a mouse shows you don't have a clue what you're on about.

Reply 56

silverbolt

Original post by liquidconfidence

Why should this topic even be up for debate?? Of course it's not a waste and trans people should forever be entitled to in on the NHS.

Agreed, so much ignorance and bias in this threat.

Yes - they absolutely should be allowed to have their treatment on the NHS

Original post by Tai Ga

No way. It's purely cosmetic. Inject funds into better mental health care.

Oh the irony that you dont even see - or maybe you do and youre simply being facetious.

Original post by BRONZEMEDAL1

Exactly this, you get labelled a transphobic person. It's the shaming that you liberals do when somebody wants to disagree or say anything remotely questioning about the tyranny of the rainbow flag.

I wouldnt label you transphobic - merely ignorant of the difficulties faced by trans people

Reply 57

username1044970

Yes; the evidence shows it works in alleviating gender dysmorphia.

Reply 58

BRONZEMEDAL1

Original post by tanyapotter

What is the biological mechanism for gender dysphoria, could electroyte therapy help cure their misplaced sense of gender.

Reply 59

leinad2012

Wait, so the cost of gender reasignment to the NHS England this year is only £23mil? When the budget for NHS England is £107bn...
That is 0.03% of the NHS Englands budget that people are getting pissy over because it is deemed unnecessary or "cosmetic".
I'll tell you something that is even more unnecessary; the £3.5BN cost to the NHS England from alcohol related problems (in 2014). Which is over 3% of the NHs Englands budget.
If people are arguing against it on accountancy terms, surely all costs from alcohol abuse should be paid for by the abusers, as that is actually something that is completely preventable.

What is obvious (and actually quite sad to see) in this thread, is that people who have a problem with trans people are using accountancy as a reason to discriminate against trans people. And as the figures show, it's a complete mute point.

If you want to discriminate against trans people then fine, but don't you dare try to pretend it's because of fiscal reasons, when it is 100% due to your intolerance towards trans people..

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/bus-plan-16.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjwpsLyybbOAhWrKMAKHcmoA2MQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNFPk89eABPwGiegiohUTmdIJOwfqQ&sig2=4T8p507_9tMFmPKU78HHFQ

https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/help-and-advice/statistics-on-alcohol/

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-10-29/thousands-face-long-wait-for-nhs-gender-reassignment-itv-news-learns/