Parents who force vegan diets on their kids face jail time under new Italian law
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All vegans should face jail for unleashing a wave of terrible restaurants upon the world.
Original post by Little Popcorns
Dramatic but I can see why they're concerned, growing children with active lifestyles in this day and age... unless their parents were so very careful and almost made feeding their children a full time job, they could quite conceivably struggle to make up all their dietry requirements from a purely vegan diet.
Is the government going to do something about all those little fat blobs waddling out of MacDonalds?
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Is the government going to do something about all those little fat blobs waddling out of MacDonalds?
Noo thats ok because their diet lives up to the social norm you see.
Its ok for a child to be unhealthy just as long as meat is involved. However if there is a child being brought on a vegan diet then jail the parents even if the child is healthy because we cant allow that.
Original post by viddy9
This is just false. Feeding your children meat is also forcing them on to it. The fact of the matter is that parents should be able to feed their children what they want, as long as it doesn't negatively affect the health of the child. As shown above, vegan diets are perfectly suitable for children. Ergo, parents should be able to feed their children a vegan diet.
If parents gave their children a full and unconstrained choice about what to eat, they'd be eating chocolate 24/7. The argument from "freedom of choice" is fatally flawed.
Why is this a good move? Any parent who feeds their child an inadequate diet should be punished. Any nutritionally adequate diet should not - whether a nutritionally adequate omnivorous diet or a nutritionally adequate vegan diet.
So, they'll just be eating chocolate 24/7 in that case. Parents have a right to feed their children whatever they want to feed them, as long as it doesn't negatively affect the health of the child. Both vegan diets and omnivorous diets can be nutritionally adequate, poorly planned vegan or omnivorous diets may not be nutritionally adequate.
If parents gave their children a full and unconstrained choice about what to eat, they'd be eating chocolate 24/7. The argument from "freedom of choice" is fatally flawed.
Why is this a good move? Any parent who feeds their child an inadequate diet should be punished. Any nutritionally adequate diet should not - whether a nutritionally adequate omnivorous diet or a nutritionally adequate vegan diet.
So, they'll just be eating chocolate 24/7 in that case. Parents have a right to feed their children whatever they want to feed them, as long as it doesn't negatively affect the health of the child. Both vegan diets and omnivorous diets can be nutritionally adequate, poorly planned vegan or omnivorous diets may not be nutritionally adequate.
Original post by greatguy903
The bit in bold makes no sense.
Grow up and decide what to eat? but if they are already choosing what to eat at an early age then isn't that them already deciding what to eat?
Grow up and decide what to eat? but if they are already choosing what to eat at an early age then isn't that them already deciding what to eat?
Lol. The way I see this is like forcing religion on your child.
Both are wrong x
Original post by viddy9
Why is this a good move? Any parent who feeds their child an inadequate diet should be punished. Any nutritionally adequate diet should not - whether a nutritionally adequate omnivorous diet or a nutritionally adequate vegan diet.
Why is this a good move? Any parent who feeds their child an inadequate diet should be punished. Any nutritionally adequate diet should not - whether a nutritionally adequate omnivorous diet or a nutritionally adequate vegan diet.
I'm confused because you're agreeing with me here...?
I think anyone feeding their child an inadequate diet deserves to be punished. Might teach people to get off their ass and cook instead of shoving their kids in the nearest mcdonalds, kfc etc.
Original post by loveleest
Lol. The way I see this is like forcing religion on your child.
Both are wrong x
Both are wrong x
Which comment were you directing to me? It's not wrong to ensure that your child doesn't eat chocolate 24/7, so "forcing" your child to eat meat or to eat a plant-based diet both aren't wrong in that sense, and refusing to feed your child the bodies or lactose secretions of abused animals is hardly a religion. Claiming that it's a religion is like claiming that people who don't feed their children chocolate that is known to come from a company which exploits its workers are also forcing a religion on their children. (And, indeed, Human Rights Watch and others have noted that the meat industry is a particularly bad area to work in, but that's a separate matter.)
Original post by Inexorably
I'm confused because you're agreeing with me here...?
I think anyone feeding their child an inadequate diet deserves to be punished. Might teach people to get off their ass and cook instead of shoving their kids in the nearest mcdonalds, kfc etc.
I think anyone feeding their child an inadequate diet deserves to be punished. Might teach people to get off their ass and cook instead of shoving their kids in the nearest mcdonalds, kfc etc.
Did you not say that the law proposing that parents who feed their children vegan diets should be given jail time was a good thing or a "good move though"? If not, I may have misunderstood you.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by thunder_chunky
Are they locking up people who over feed their kids on a diet of sugar and crap?
Original post by viddy9
Did you not say that the law proposing that parents who feed their children vegan diets should be given jail time was a good thing? If not, I may have misunderstood you.
Oh soz it appears I misunderstood you
I think this is a step in the right direction but a step too far (yeah I know that's slightly oxymoronic) - I think there should be some form of punishment (/disincentive) but not jail time unless the effect on the child has been life-threatening.
Original post by Inexorably
Oh soz it appears I misunderstood you
I think this is a step in the right direction but a step too far (yeah I know that's slightly oxymoronic) - I think there should be some form of punishment (/disincentive) but not jail time unless the effect on the child has been life-threatening.
I think this is a step in the right direction but a step too far (yeah I know that's slightly oxymoronic) - I think there should be some form of punishment (/disincentive) but not jail time unless the effect on the child has been life-threatening.
This seems to assume that vegan diets are inherently harmful to children, though, which just isn't the case. As I documented above, the American Dietetic Association has noted that well-planned vegan diets can be healthful for all stages of the life cycle. Here are just some children who have grown up to be intelligent and healthy human beings, and who were also brought up on a vegan diet. Should their parents be punished?
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that an increased focus on inadequate diets for children is a good thing. I don't see how this proposed law really contributes to this, though, because it's not got anything to do with inadequate diets, but rather vegan diets.
Original post by greatguy903
Noo thats ok because their diet lives up to the social norm you see.
Its ok for a child to be unhealthy just as long as meat is involved. However if there is a child being brought on a vegan diet then jail the parents even if the child is healthy because we cant allow that.
Its ok for a child to be unhealthy just as long as meat is involved. However if there is a child being brought on a vegan diet then jail the parents even if the child is healthy because we cant allow that.
It should just come under a general child well being law. If the child is nutritionally lacking then social services step in.
Original post by loveleest
Lol. The way I see this is like forcing religion on your child.
Both are wrong x
Both are wrong x
Ok then. So what is the solution? Do you want a state that decides what values and philosophies children should grow up with? Does the state own the children first and foremost? This is just another form of religion. If you want to see the extreme of it just go read on the attitude the state had towards family life in the Soviet Union.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by viddy9
This seems to assume that vegan diets are inherently harmful to children, though, which just isn't the case. As I documented above, the American Dietetic Association has noted that well-planned vegan diets can be healthful for all stages of the life cycle. Here are just some children who have grown up to be intelligent and healthy human beings, and who were also brought up on a vegan diet. Should their parents be punished?
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that an increased focus on inadequate diets for children is a good thing. I don't see how this proposed law really contributes to this, though, because it's not got anything to do with inadequate diets, but rather vegan diets.
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that an increased focus on inadequate diets for children is a good thing. I don't see how this proposed law really contributes to this, though, because it's not got anything to do with inadequate diets, but rather vegan diets.
In my post earlier I stated that not every vegan diet is inadequate and that people are using this unfairly against veganism, I do recognise that plenty of people can lead vegan diets without any health deficiencies. I am in support of action against inadequate diets, so where someone perhaps (e.g.) enacts a vegan diet upon their child to a very extreme extent and denies them of key nutrients etc. - not the average person who is vegan
Original post by Inexorably
In my post earlier I stated that not every vegan diet is inadequate and that people are using this unfairly against veganism, I do recognise that plenty of people can lead vegan diets without any health deficiencies. I am in support of action against inadequate diets, so where someone perhaps (e.g.) enacts a vegan diet upon their child to a very extreme extent and denies them of key nutrients etc. - not the average person who is vegan
If the law raises discussion about inadequate diets, then that's a good thing. If the law passes, as you've noted, it's a bad thing because it's an extreme law. It's most likely not going to raise discussion about inadequate diets though, in my view. Instead, as you've said, it's probably going to induce discussions about veganism.
Original post by thunder_chunky
Someone proposed a law. Nowhere does it state it has come into effect...
Original post by swervybang
What defines forced here? What if the parents just cook vegan food at home and allow the child to go and buy non-vegan food with their own money? Should the parents have to buy meat just for the child?
Took 25 posts before somebody mentioned the bleeding obvious (i.e. how on earth would you even enforce such a law?).
Original post by venetiaan
How is a vegan diet healthy for a child? (I'm genuinely asking)
I can understand why a vegeterian one might be okay but how is a child supposed to get what it needs from salads,fruits and tofu? Isnt the kid supposed to drink milk for one thing?
I can understand why a vegeterian one might be okay but how is a child supposed to get what it needs from salads,fruits and tofu? Isnt the kid supposed to drink milk for one thing?
Hey, it's cool that you're actually asking a valid question rather than slating vegans or vegetarians without any knowledge of their diets. In the most genuine way, thank you for asking this question.
Any diet is all about balance, right? It's what the Greeks prioritised in their medicine - Hippocrates (famous doctor-man, Father of Modern Medicine, no big deal) would treat his patients through 'controlled diet and exercise'. They even erected a bunch of buildings dedicated to bathing people and getting them exercised to try and cure their ills! I mean... they then left them in a room with a bunch of hallucinogenic drugs so the patients dreamed they were being cured by a God and his two daughters whilst priests rubbed snake venom in their eyes... where was I going with this?
Balance, okay got it. If you look at the food pyramid/food pie chart/whatever easy way the food groups can be presented, you'll notice that it comprises of several sections right? On the government website of stuff I found this (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/528193/Eatwell_guide_colour.pdf) which has the different groups: fruit and veg, carbs, oil, dairy and protein. On there, there's obviously a ton of non-vegan products, but I can hopefully go through each section with you so you can see the variety available to vegans, and to any child/adult on a vegan diet.
Fruit and veg: I think this one is pretty self explanatory... (hopefully), vegans can have pretty much any fruit or veg, although some would prefer eating fruit in season to reduce the impact on the environment, but the world is our (vegan) oyster as far as veg is concerned.
Carbs: pretty much every type of carb on that chart is vegan! I regularly eat pasta with vegan pesto, mashed potatoes with Flora vegan butter, bread (checking the ingredients, some have sneaky milk in them), bagels are vegan, couscous with chickpeas or veg oh my, sweet potatoes and baked potatoes with Heinz beans!, special K cereal... as long as you check the label and sometimes swap around bits and pieces, you can get all the carbs your body needs without animals suffering.
Oils: olive oil is all cool and groovy, but the problem would be "butter"; 10 or so years ago vegans would be utterly screwed, but due to the benefits of having a population becoming more aware of our environmental impact/the fact that being vegan is "trendy", Flora have released their dairy free butter and it's AMAZING. Literally none of my friends can tell the difference until I tell them! That butter can be put on toast, mashed potato, cookery and baking... it's wonderful.
Dairy: okay on that pie chart admittedly there's only one type of dairy listed (soya milk), but there's other things like almond milk which is low calorie and super yummy which you can have on cereal! There are alternative cheeses too and some of them are actually alright... dairy would be my only concern when raising a kid vegan, but if you carefully monitored their food for a little bit, you'd realise that there's actually a lot of calcium in things that you didn't realise: a glass of soya milk has basically all the calcium in it, tofu, loads of greens like spinach cabbage and rocket, ORANGES, and more. However, I'd recommend taking a calcium supplement just to be sure #take ur vitamins! Calcium fortified cereal like special K is also a really excellent source. You say "kids are supposed to drink milk" but we were supposed to drink our mothers' milk, not the milk made for baby cows? Are our kids baby cows? I mean... I don't judge... but seriously, a baby will get their vitamins/minerals from those baby formulae, they exist for the sole reason of giving babies what they might not get in their mothers' milk, and once the kid is old enough to get their daily calcium dose from other sources - a bowl of special K or anything for breakfast with soya milk would be pretty much enough! - they will be absolutely fine. There are now soya yoghurts, soya chocolate milk, vegan milk chocolate (I'm bleeding out my uterus right now and I'm scoffing down a ton of the vegan Dairy Milk, it's fantastic) and SOYA ICE CREAM COVERED WITH MELTED VEGAN CHOCOLATE AND CHOPPED UP OREOS. Whoever said vegans were healthy is so, so wrong...
Protein: "uh muh GAWD where do you get your PROTEIN from?!" is the question asked by meat-eaters who don't quite get how vegan diets work. From the items listed on the pie chart in the "meat" section, 4/10 (or 2/5 if you like your simplified fractions) are vegan: lentils, beans/baked beans, chickpeas and nuts. Heck, almonds have a huge amount of calcium AND protein?! Granted, a lot of the foods there are more "sophisticated", but if a kid grows up with quinoa (which is tasty and protein full by the way), they'll like it and they'll get used to it. Also, there are a load of chickpea and black bean burgers so if they wanted, they could live off ketchup and vegan proteiny burgers if they wanted! Vegan cooking doesn't have to require effort, just heating up an oven and shoving in some oven chips and a burger.
For junk food, I've already mentioned ice cream, burgers, oreos and vegan chocolate. There are also Pringles, party rings, custard, curries, digestive biscuits, rich teas, some brands of bourbons, vodka (less suited to kids though) and a million other ways I cope with periods. Seriously, I'm spoiled for choice, and if you do veganism right, so will the kids.
If you're an a-hole and just feed your kids lettuce and tomato salad for every meal, your kids will grow up sick and deficient not because of their vegan diet but because you're a terrible parent.
Thats a very difficult topic. Raising a child is generaly the parents responsibility and they have the right to raise their children as they please as long as they become respectable law-abiding citizens.
If parents decide to live a religious life with their children then that should be accepted. Parents are also responsible for providing children with healthy food while at home. I would prefer a vegan diet over over a Chips and Cola one
And thats coming from a meat aficionado.
If parents decide to live a religious life with their children then that should be accepted. Parents are also responsible for providing children with healthy food while at home. I would prefer a vegan diet over over a Chips and Cola one
And thats coming from a meat aficionado.
Okay right I'm going to make a list of vegan kids dishes just to show that it's not all fruits and salads!!!!!!I was brought up vegetarian and so I have no idea what normal kids meals look like but those ^^^^ seem like fairly okay alternatives for parents who don't want to cause their kids to suffer... Vegans aren't an incurable evil, and veganism isn't a disease. Lots of people do it because they care about their environment and want to involve the people they love in their beliefs. My parents always gave me the option to give up vegetarianism, but since I'd always known it that way, I wasn't fussed.
Vegan kids brought up in that way aren't bullied into it by their parents, they're just brought up in the same way many kids who were brought up Christian/Mormon/Jewish remain religious until they're older, but equally many don't. If a kid gets kicked out because they don't want to be Christian anymore, we call the parents idiots for their beliefs, we don't tar all Christians with that brush. If a non-vegan kid is kicked out by vegan parents (which I've never actually heard happen...) we blame the veganism? Where is the logic here?!
•
baked beans on toast with Flora vegan butter and Heinz ketchup
•
oven chips (bonus points if you make your own chips and fry them and stuff) and a bean burger with a burger bun, lettuce/tomato/pickles etc
•
normal pasta with vegan pesto (not too expensive and very tasty), or homemade tomato sauce with onion, garlic and (optional) vegetables
•
rice and a chickpea curry (if they're older, it can be spicy)
•
lentils cooked in a tomatoey sauce on crunchy bread
•
stewed vegetables in a tomatoey sauce like a ratatouille - aubergine is so tender and yummy!!!
•
spaghetti bolognese with Quorn or tofu
•
vegetable lasagne with a vegan cheese sauce (that exists)
•
vegan mac and cheese - to get the cheese, you grind up cashew nuts and soak them overnight and it turns into this creamy sauce!!!!
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cashew nut cheese on nachos with avo guac mmMMMMmmm
•
PIZZA is a staple meal, and whilst it has to be homemade it can have vegan cheese or you can bypass that and add vegetables or rocket or sweetcorn or pineapple or whatever stuff you want - making pizza with kids is the most fun thing because you can knead it and flip it and be a really cute family whilst doing it!!!!!! love that!!!
•
tomato soup out of a can (Heinz are my no.1), vegetable soup (check labels), most soups actually...
Vegan kids brought up in that way aren't bullied into it by their parents, they're just brought up in the same way many kids who were brought up Christian/Mormon/Jewish remain religious until they're older, but equally many don't. If a kid gets kicked out because they don't want to be Christian anymore, we call the parents idiots for their beliefs, we don't tar all Christians with that brush. If a non-vegan kid is kicked out by vegan parents (which I've never actually heard happen...) we blame the veganism? Where is the logic here?!
What an absurd proposal.
Ironic how the usual right-wing libertarians of TSR are condoning totalitarianism.
Ironic how the usual right-wing libertarians of TSR are condoning totalitarianism.
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