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Express trust and an outright gift. Milory v lord

Hey there guys can someone tell me te differences between a outright gift to a trust.
Am I right to state an outright gift is not a trust? As it gets transferred to donee

Thus, also for an exam what will I have to comply with to state that a certain outright gift is valid.
Reply 1
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Hann95
11
In order for a trust to exist the three certainties must be satisfied - intention, subject matter and objects. You should go through each of these in relation to any problem style question. If any of the certainties aren't met the trust will fail.

If the intention isn't satisfied because of the use of precatory wording (E.g. Expressing a wish or desire that money be used for a specific purpose rather than stipulating exactly) the trust will fail but it may still be a valid gift meaning that the donee has no legal obligation to carry out the wishes of the doner.
Original post by Hann95
In order for a trust to exist the three certainties must be satisfied - intention, subject matter and objects. You should go through each of these in relation to any problem style question. If any of the certainties aren't met the trust will fail.

If the intention isn't satisfied because of the use of precatory wording (E.g. Expressing a wish or desire that money be used for a specific purpose rather than stipulating exactly) the trust will fail but it may still be a valid gift meaning that the donee has no legal obligation to carry out the wishes of the doner.


Thank you and when talking about the formailities if secret trust although they are outside te Dehors will can I still state a will is needed to complete the transfer? And s9
Needs to be complied with? Or is that a big NO.
Reply 3
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Hann95
11
Original post by Highfiveyou
Thank you and when talking about the formailities if secret trust although they are outside te Dehors will can I still state a will is needed to complete the transfer? And s9
Needs to be complied with? Or is that a big NO.


If it's a secret trust you need to explain that it is not revealed on the face of the will that there is a trust and it appears to be an outright gift but it is a trust that operates outside of the will. The main issue is usually communication of the trust to the secret trustee. You may also be faced with a situation that might ordinarily invalidate the will e.g. The secret trustee might have witnessed the will which would normally invalidate it, however as they are actually a secret trustee, they are not a beneficiary.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Hann95
If it's a secret trust you need to explain that it is not revealed on the face of the will that there is a trust and it appears to be an outright gift but it is a trust that operates outside of the will. The main issue is usually communication of the trust to the secret trustee. You may also be faced with a situation that might ordinarily invalidate the will e.g. The secret trustee might have witnessed the will which would normally invalidate it, however as they are actually a secret trustee, they are not a beneficiary.

Do the three certainities also apply to secret trusts? I'm have problem question and it's difficult to apply as the subject matter and the trust. Thus, the intention if the secret trust may not even be placed on the ace of the will
Reply 5
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Hann95
11
Original post by Highfiveyou
Do the three certainities also apply to secret trusts? I'm have problem question and it's difficult to apply as the subject matter and the trust. Thus, the intention if the secret trust may not even be placed on the ace of the will


What's the question?
Original post by Hann95
What's the question?


http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4249050
I've posted it on a new thread there is the link, thanks for helping :smile:
Reply 7
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Hann95
11
Original post by Highfiveyou
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4249050
I've posted it on a new thread there is the link, thanks for helping :smile:


Ahh I see, that's definitely a half secret trust. Its revealed on the face of the will that there is a trust, but the beneficiary of the trust is not provided. I wouldn't think you'd have to go through the certainties answering this question. Points you need to address are what constitutes a half secret trust (as stated above), what are the issues with communication - was the trust communicated effectively? when? did the trustee accept? etc. Also consider if there any issues with the will. Unlike a fully secret trust, half secret trusts do not operate outside of the will.
Original post by Hann95
Ahh I see, that's definitely a half secret trust. Its revealed on the face of the will that there is a trust, but the beneficiary of the trust is not provided. I wouldn't think you'd have to go through the certainties answering this question. Points you need to address are what constitutes a half secret trust (as stated above), what are the issues with communication - was the trust communicated effectively? when? did the trustee accept? etc. Also consider if there any issues with the will. Unlike a fully secret trust, half secret trusts do not operate outside of the will.


However, if the beneficiary is not on the fave of the will can I state if the beneficiary was communicated to the trustee then this will be certain in accordance to the objects of the trust?
Reply 9
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Hann95
11
Original post by Highfiveyou
However, if the beneficiary is not on the fave of the will can I state if the beneficiary was communicated to the trustee then this will be certain in accordance to the objects of the trust?


I don't see why not but I wouldn't focus too much attention on the certainities
Original post by Hann95
I don't see why not but I wouldn't focus too much attention on the certainities


Thank you! :smile:

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