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Banning the burkini is misogynist

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Original post by BaconandSauce
then the Muslim women can wear that then


If it is the same thing, why not wear the burkini? Flawed logic.
Original post by Brahmin of Booty
How can you be sure, I'm a White man so I could probably get away with it, but if a brown woman puts on her wet suit with the gendarmerie take her away?


This isn't really addressing my point... But well done on making it about race.
It's misogynist. That there are more misogynist things happening elsewhere in the world doesn't negate this.

I wear 'modest' swimwear. Not a burkini, but I cover up much more than the average person at the beach. Banning it wouldn't prompt me to put on a bikini, it'd just mean that I couldn't go swimming. I imagine the same is true of women who cover up more than I do, especially if it's out of strong religious conviction.

It's not the place of the state to tell us what to wear, beyond laws prohibiting public nudity. It's morally equivalent to the state telling women they *must* cover their bodies, which most people recognise is completely wrong. Someone else wearing a burkini, or a bikini, or a clown costume at the beach isn't actually hurting anyone else, so it's no-one's business but their own.
Original post by tammie123
What harm is it causing exactly if these women choose to wear this? I don't understand your argument


Why does it have to be about harm?
Original post by BaconandSauce
I am arguing my point

Rather than just attacking those who disagree with me

A lesson for you perhaps


I wasn't attacking you personally, I was just trying to make a point. What I said to you applies to everyone trying to tell others what to wear and what not to wear.
Original post by BaconandSauce
Nope I don't

I think France and her people have the right to decide what laws they have

I am not so bigoted to think a person who has 'faith' should somehow be exempt and given Frances secular nature so ignorant of them and their culture to demand they have to change for a few newcomers

And no it's not just a swimming costume (hence the furore when trying to prevent a few people wearing them on one beach in France where a Muslim killed 50 odd people)


Of course a country and people have the right to decide their own laws - that doesn't mean that others can't criticise it. By your logic, you can have no issue with the laws in, say, Saudi Arabia regarding women's rights.

It's also not about "newcomers" refusing to assimilate, and you really can't argue faith vs a secular culture when "other religious symbols such as the kippah ... and the cross would still be permitted". (Halfway down the page, under "the reaction in the French press".) If other religious people are permitted to wear their religious symbols, then so should Muslim women.
Original post by BaconandSauce
Why does it have to be about harm?


So what exactly is your argument? Why are you so against it?
Original post by MeMoiLove
If it is the same thing, why not wear the burkini? Flawed logic.


Because it is the same thing sans religious connotation
Original post by tammie123
I wasn't attacking you personally,


Yes you were you spoke directly to me

as I say try making a contribution to the thread
Original post by BaconandSauce
Because it is the same thing sans religious connotation


How so? As an Atheism (I presume) you surely cannot recognise a piece of cloth as having religious connotations. Tell me what the difference is between a burqini and a wetsuit?
Original post by tammie123
So what exactly is your argument? Why are you so against it?


That given the issues the Muslim world has and the abhorrent treatment of minorities and females asking a feminist to be concerned with one beach in France rather than the wide scale abuse that is Islam and Muslim culture is rather Ironic.



Hard the to tell the difference between the Westerner on the left and the dangerous Jihadi on the right.
Original post by Leksaa
It's misogynist. That there are more misogynist things happening elsewhere in the world doesn't negate this.

I wear 'modest' swimwear. Not a burkini, but I cover up much more than the average person at the beach. Banning it wouldn't prompt me to put on a bikini, it'd just mean that I couldn't go swimming. I imagine the same is true of women who cover up more than I do, especially if it's out of strong religious conviction.

It's not the place of the state to tell us what to wear, beyond laws prohibiting public nudity. It's morally equivalent to the state telling women they *must* cover their bodies, which most people recognise is completely wrong. Someone else wearing a burkini, or a bikini, or a clown costume at the beach isn't actually hurting anyone else, so it's no-one's business but their own.


What's wrong with being nude on the beach? Give me one reason why it is more damaging than someone wearing a burkini.
Original post by Brahmin of Booty
How so?


It was your example so you not already know the answer to this?
Original post by Brahmin of Booty



Hard the to tell the difference between the Westerner on the left and the dangerous Jihadi on the right.


This has nothing to do with terrorism.
Original post by BaconandSauce
Yes you were you spoke directly to me

as I say try making a contribution to the thread


Well I don't see how you could take that as a personal insult when I don't even know you
Original post by KingBradly
What's wrong with being nude on the beach? Give me one reason why it is more damaging than someone wearing a burkini.


Nothing whatsoever, you should be consistent and support the rights of Muslims rather than falling into this trap of low class bigotry.
Original post by KingBradly
What's wrong with being nude on the beach? Give me one reason why it is more damaging than someone wearing a burkini.


Absolutely nothing, if it's a nudist beach.

There's a general social consensus that being nude in public isn't acceptable, because nudity is invariably sexualised. There are cultures where women usually go topless, and this isn't seen as an issue because their breasts aren't viewed as sexual within that cultural framework. A woman going topless in London would attract stares, comments, and very possibly harassment. It's contextual.

You can argue that all clothing customs are socially constructed, and you'd be right, but it's fairly irrelevant to the topic. I think anyone claiming to be offended because someone covers *more* skin than is usual in their culture is being disingenuous.
Original post by Brahmin of Booty
Nothing whatsoever, you should be consistent and support the rights of Muslims rather than falling into this trap of low class bigotry.


Tbh I wouldn't support banning the burkini. But banning it isn't misogynistic at all, and I can see why people might consider banning it. I view fundementalist Islam as being on par with Nazism in terms of how bad it is (just my opinion, which I'm sure you'll defend my right to have, just like you would defend a fundementalist Muslim's right to think that women who wear bikinis will burn in hell forever, and that thats a good thing) and although I don't agree with banning the swastika, I can see why countries like Germany do.
Original post by KingBradly
Tbh I wouldn't support banning the burkini. But banning it isn't misogynistic at all, and I can see why people might consider banning it. I view fundementalist Islam as being on par with Nazism in terms of how bad it is (just my opinion, which I'm sure you'll defend my right to have, just like you would defend a fundementalist Muslim's right to think that women who wear bikinis will burn in hell forever, and that thats a good thing) and although I don't agree with banning the swastika, I can see why countries like Germany do.


I do support your right to that opinion and I think the Germans are a bunch of pathetic hypocrites for banning the swastika.

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