French mayor bans burkinis

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New Charlie Hebdo cover published in response to this ban.

"Muslims, loosen up"

Thoughts?

So they support taking away Muslim women's freedom to wear the burkini? I thought they out of all people would believe in freedom.

Reply 281

teenhorrorstory

Original post by Lord Samosa

So they support taking away Muslim women's freedom to wear the burkini? I thought they out of all people would believe in freedom.

I think they're actually mocking the ban? Not sure though

Reply 282

1010marina

Original post by WBZ144

Those costumes were designed for the purpose are harming people and spreading fear, how can they be compared to burkinis?

Because it signifies female inferiority?

If you start banning clothing that is racist then you must consider banning clothing that is homophobic, reminiscent of hatred - could you then extend this to saying we can ban the colour red because it is associated with communism? You can't say we ban X because it is obviously wrong to wear and yet decide for yourself that something else is not wrong.

You can't deny the rather dubious status of women in Islam and by extension the perception that the supposed Islamic dress code for women is oppressive. So wearing Islamic dress can be seen as an affront to feminism - do you see why it is very hard to draw a line between what is offensive and what is not, because it is a subjective line that depends on your viewpoints, and indeed who you consider has the right to be offended?

Reply 283

Lord Samosa

Original post by teenhorrorstory

I think they're actually mocking the ban? Not sure though

Doesn't look like it. Just looks like they're mocking Muslims... again, and telling them to just loosen up.

Nothing there to suggest they're showing any care about the concept of freedom.

Reply 284

teenhorrorstory

Original post by Lord Samosa

Doesn't look like it. Just looks like they're mocking Muslims... again, and telling them to just loosen up.

Nothing there to suggest they're showing any care about the concept of freedom.

I saw it more as them mocking the idea behind the ban: Now that the burkini has been banned, are we going to see a surge of Muslims 'loosening' up and embracing so called liberalism? Obviously not

I don't understand their 'satire' though, so idk :lol:

Reply 285

Lord Samosa

Original post by Bros R Us

bro weren't you leaving tsr (?)

Well I'd like to use it less or stop over the next few weeks. I've not exactly made a special announcement thread saying I'm leaving like some people do. :lol:

Reply 286

Lord Samosa

Original post by teenhorrorstory

I don't understand their satire either, and obviously I'm not a big fan of them so I just tend to ignore them :lol:

Reply 287

username471863

Original post by 1010marina

There's a difference between clothing that may be perceived as racist and clothing that was used to inflict violence on and instill fear in a particular race. Once we get groups of women in burkinis (designed for that specific purpose) who go around at night, violently targeting all Chinese people (for an instance) then the comparison would be valid. It's not just about offending people, it's about inciting violence.

How exactly will the ban benefit women who wear burkinis? If they are victims of oppression, how much sense does it make to punish the victims by limiting the leisure activities that they can do, despite that they are not harming anyone?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 288

marcobruni98

I totally agree with promoting secularism especially in the 21st century, but targeting Muslim women seems a bit off... hypocrisy is strong with this. We criticise that women in the Arab world cannot wear what they want, yet France is banning a specific apparel for women. Also looking at the photos the suits do not look particularly religious or offensive in any way, they almost look like the ones divers use.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 289

Josb

Original post by WBZ144

So many "go back to where you came from" bigots over here. Newsflash: you cannot live in a free society while wanting to deport anyone with opposing views (especially not to countries that have nothing to do with them). It simply doesn't go both ways.

Don't you think that you are exaggerating a little bit here?

Original post by WBZ144

Those costumes were designed for the purpose are harming people and spreading fear, how can they be compared to burkinis?

I was answering someone who said that no clothing should be banned. I didn't compare them directly to a burkini.

However, the burkini was precisely designed with an obvious proselytic message, which is spreading sectarian Islamic beliefs; indeed -- as it has been pointed -- it was already possible to find clothes that cover more than a swimsuit, like wet suits, but no clothing could better show the faith of its wearer than a burkini.

The burkini repeats the religious message that women who don't cover are impure and men are wild beasts unable to control themselves. Many people (actually, the majority) are extremely annoyed when they see women parading in these clothes next to them, given what they represent. It also blatantly shows the "us vs. them" behaviour of radical Muslims.

Reply 290

Josb

Original post by marcobruni98

I totally agree with promoting secularism especially in the 21st century, but targeting Muslim women seems a bit off... hypocrisy is strong with this.

Not all Muslim women wear a burkini. Many have seemed happy to wear a swimsuit, given that the burkini is a new outfit.

Original post by marcobruni98

We criticise that women in the Arab world cannot wear what they want

No, we criticise the fact that women in the Arab world are forced to permanently wear some specific outfits. Here, we have one outfit that is banned in a specific place.

It is forbidden to wear this outfit here

This outfit must always be worn.

Original post by marcobruni98

yet France is banning a specific apparel for women.

It's not "France", it's "a" mayor banning it on the beach of the town. There are 36.000 mayors in France.

Original post by marcobruni98

Also looking at the photos the suits do not look particularly religious or offensive in any way, they almost look like the ones divers use.

I didn't know that divers dived with a skirt on.

Reply 291

BaconandSauce

Original post by teenhorrorstory

New Charlie Hebdo cover published in response to this ban.

"Muslims, loosen up"

Thoughts?

Perfect

Reply 292

BaconandSauce

Original post by Lord Samosa

I thought they out of all people would believe in freedom.

Why?

Reply 293

Lord Samosa

Original post by BaconandSauce

Why?

They were attacked for simply exercising their freedom of speech. I thought they would care deeply about the freedom to wear what you want too.

Reply 294

username471863

Original post by Josb

Don't you think that you are exaggerating a little bit here?

I was answering someone who said that no clothing should be banned. I didn't compare them directly to a burkini.

However, the burkini was precisely designed with an obvious proselytic message, which is spreading sectarian Islamic beliefs; indeed -- as it has been pointed -- it was already possible to find clothes that cover more than a swimsuit, like wet suits, but no clothing could better show the faith of its wearer than a burkini.

The burkini repeats the religious message that women who don't cover are impure and men are wild beasts unable to control themselves. Many people (actually, the majority) are extremely annoyed when they see women parading in these clothes next to them, given what they represent. It also blatantly shows the "us vs. them" behaviour of radical Muslims.

How else would you interpret telling someone "if you don't like it, go back to Saudi Arabia/go live in a Muslim country". That's pretty much telling someone that they shoudn't be in a country which is supposed to support the right to freedom of expression because they dared to criticise a law or opinion, something that they should be well within their rights to do. The same way people should be able to criticise religious laws, they should also be able to criticise so-called secular laws and it is hypocritical to support one but try to silence those who attempt the other by trying to shame and alienate them with "you don't belong here, anyway".

You really think that burkini designers were thinking of ways of spreading "sectarian beliefs"? Firstly. hijab is nothing new, and it is simply a swimsuit which enables women who wear hijab to go swimming in public places.

Secondly, can you see into the minds of every woman who wears a burkini? How do you know that she is wearing it because she thinks she is "pure" and that women who don't wear it are "impure"? The hijab itself was originally used to distinguish free women from slave women, so it represents 6th century Arabian culture rather than what you claim it does. Why a woman chooses to dress like a 6th century Arabian (and if you bothered to ask their opinions you would see that their reasons vary) shouldn't be the business of the State, especially not in a society that claims to promote personal freedoms. And if she did not choose to dress like a 6th century Arabian, but the choice was made for her then how will she benefit from the ban? She would only have more restrictions imposed on her by those claiming to be protecting her.

Thirdly, the reason specified for this ban was that these women were showing an affiliation to terrorists, and I already demonstrated why that was nonsense, as did other users here.

Do you think that Sikh dastars and Jewish kippah's encourage sectarian religious beliefs? Should they be banned too?

Reply 295

BaconandSauce

Original post by Lord Samosa

They were attacked for simply exercising their freedom of speech. I thought they would care deeply about the freedom to wear what you want too.

you said

(Original post by Lord Samosa)I thought they out of all people would believe in freedom.

The below is not an answer to the question why

Original post by Lord Samosa

They were attacked for simply exercising their freedom of speech. I thought they would care deeply about the freedom to wear what you want too.

And no one has been attacked stop getting hysterical

Reply 296

Lord Samosa

Original post by BaconandSauce

you said

(Original post by Lord Samosa)I thought they out of all people would believe in freedom.

The below is not an answer to the question why

And no one has been attacked stop getting hysterical

So it's okay to take away their freedom to wear something harmless?

Reply 297

BaconandSauce

Original post by Lord Samosa

So it's okay to take away their freedom to wear something harmless unless someone gets killed?

Given this is for 1 beach (possibly 2 now) in the whole of France and it is a local decision I can see no issue with this

All the mayor wants is people to do is dress appropriately for the beach and show some consideration towards the people who live there given they have just suffered a massive attack by another muslin.

Is this wrong of them? is showing them consideration too much to ask?

Reply 298

Lord Samosa

Original post by BaconandSauce

Muslims have been killed in those attacks too. Isn't this disrespectful to them? Or are you saying all Muslims share the blame, despite being the victims of these attacks too.

Reply 299

username471863

Ban Christian nuns from going to the beach, clearly they think that women who don't dress like them are "impure" and anyway, they're wearing clothing dictated to them by a religious book that is misogynistic. This will surely free them, once they realise that they have no choice but to remove their religious garb. So you see, they're being restricted and excluded for their own benefit.