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Bigotry towards drug users.

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Original post by dingleberry jam
Why is it acceptable? What makes it any different to bigotry directed at gays?


I'm sure someone beat me to it but perhaps because it's a choice unlike homosexuality…


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Original post by Underscore__
I'm sure someone beat me to it but perhaps because it's a choice unlike homosexuality…


Yeah, i'm not convinced drug preference is a choice and drug taking isn't always a choice, going cold turkey can kill an alcoholic. Homosexuality isn't a choice, but gay sex is.
Original post by dingleberry jam
Yeah, i'm not convinced drug preference is a choice and drug taking isn't always a choice, going cold turkey can kill an alcoholic. Homosexuality isn't a choice, but gay sex is.


It seems a bit far fetched to me that someone can be naturally predisposed to taking drugs. Taking drugs is always a choice unless someone forces you which I imagine is very rare. Going cold turkey is dangerous in some instances but there's always a choice to start taking drugs. Homosexual relationships/sex is a choice but the difference between the two choices is that gay sex doesn't harm anyone or have a negative impact on society


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Original post by Underscore__
It seems a bit far fetched to me that someone can be naturally predisposed to taking drugs.


Why? We all take drugs, always have done, always will.

Original post by Underscore__

Taking drugs is always a choice unless someone forces you which I imagine is very rare. Going cold turkey is dangerous in some instances but there's always a choice to start taking drugs.


Maybe, but it's not the same choice for the mentally ill desperate for an escape.

Original post by Underscore__

Homosexual relationships/sex is a choice but the difference between the two choices is that gay sex doesn't harm anyone or have a negative impact on society


Neither does the vast majority of drug use. Gay men are at increased risk of sexually transmitted infections, depression, anxiety, suicide, drug use....
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by dingleberry jam
Why? We all take drugs, always have done, always will.


Yes that's true, we don't all take illegal drugs though. I still don't see how that means some people are predisposed to taking drugs.

Original post by dingleberry jam
Maybe, but it's not the same choice for the mentally ill desperate for an escape.


According to JAMA 53% of drug addicts have mental health problems, so there are still huge numbers of people who are drug addicts and don't have mental health problems.

Original post by dingleberry jam
Neither does the vast majority of drug use. Gay men are at increased risk of sexually transmitted infections, depression, anxiety, suicide....


Well crime is a clear harm to society of drug use, most serious addicts cannot work to fund their habit. Other than sexually transmitted illness, none of those things are as a result of homosexual sex.


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Original post by Underscore__
Yes that's true, we don't all take illegal drugs though. I still don't see how that means some people are predisposed to taking drugs.
Other than the risk of prosecution i'm not sure what difference it makes whether they are legal or not. If we're not predisposed how do you explain the fact that we pretty much all take drugs?

Original post by Underscore__

According to JAMA 53% of drug addicts have mental health problems, so there are still huge numbers of people who are drug addicts and don't have mental health problems.


Still a large percentage.

Original post by Underscore__

Well crime is a clear harm to society of drug use, most serious addicts cannot work to fund their habit.

Most drug users aren't serious addicts.

Original post by Underscore__

Other than sexually transmitted illness, none of those things are as a result of homosexual sex.


Sure, maybe drug use though, poppers?
Original post by dingleberry jam
Other than the risk of prosecution i'm not sure what difference it makes whether they are legal or not. If we're not predisposed how do you explain the fact that we pretty much all take drugs?


You don't see why antihistamines are different to heroin? People take legal drugs to recover from illness, that doesn't mean you're predisposed, if there was an alternative that was as easy then perhaps drug use would be less common.

Original post by dingleberry jam
Still a large percentage.


Yes but still a huge number of people with no mental health issue who are choosing to take drugs.

Original post by dingleberry jam
Most drug users aren't serious addicts.


I think that depends on which drug you're talking about. Most cannabis users can still have a normal life, the same can't be said for heroin addicts.

Original post by dingleberry jam
Sure, maybe drug use though, poppers?


I don't quite see how that harms anyone?



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Original post by Underscore__
You don't see why antihistamines are different to heroin? People take legal drugs to recover from illness, that doesn't mean you're predisposed, if there was an alternative that was as easy then perhaps drug use would be less common.
Err no, recreational drugs, sorry.

Original post by Underscore__

the same can't be said for heroin addicts.

It can, the dependence rate for heroin is about 25%.

Original post by Underscore__

I don't quite see how that harms anyone?
Poppers? They can cause harm.
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 108
Avatar for Truth88
Truth88
Original post by the bear
drugs are a mug's game


I don't mind herb smokers but Cocaine abuse is destroying the UK.
drugs are so not cool ?
Is "bigot" the new go-to insult, the new I wanna have a rant let's talk about "bigots"?
Doing drugs is a choice. If that action then starts negatively impacting your friends and family, then they are well within their right to get rid of you.
Original post by dingleberry jam
Err no, recreational drugs, sorry.


You think we all pretty much take recreational drugs?

Original post by dingleberry jam
It can, the dependence rate for heroin is about 25%.


Have you got a source for that?

Original post by dingleberry jam
Poppers? They can cause harm.


As can almost anything but poppers are legal and they aren't addictive.
Original post by Underscore__
You think we all pretty much take recreational drugs?
You have to be a little weird to be an adult that's never tried alcohol, nicotine or caffeine.


Original post by Underscore__

Have you got a source for that?


http://www.nta.nhs.uk/uploads/dangerousnessofdrugsdh_4086293.pdf

Original post by Underscore__
poppers are legal


Are they? i can never remember what happened with them in the psychoactive substances act.
Original post by dingleberry jam
You have to be a little weird to be an adult that's never tried alcohol, nicotine or caffeine.


Right, now I get what you're talking about. Firstly, I'd hardly call caffeine a recreational drug. While tobacco and alcohol kill more than heroin a far greater percentage of people die of heroin overdose, it's far more dangerous.

Original post by dingleberry jam
Are they? i can never remember what happened with them in the psychoactive substances act.


They were left out of it
Original post by dingleberry jam
Why is it acceptable? What makes it any different to bigotry directed at gays?
Prejudism towards drug use is very stupid, but it is different to bigotry against gays because gays don't choose to be gay, so it inevitably says less about the substance of their character. Also, as someone who used to use drugs quite heavily, you have to admit that some of the fun comes from feeling like a bunch of outcasts, up against the world. It's very exciting. But it is also very bad for people who have actual drug problems. The best thing you can do is just try and change peoples' minds! But in the end, its up to them what they think. Happy drug using, don't go too far, remember that shrooms > everything, and whenever someone tells you "drugs are for mugs", point to Berlioz, who wrote his famous "Symphony Fantastique" whilst high on opium, Coleridge who wrote the "Kubla Khan" also on opium, Francis Crick who discovered the DNA double helix whilst on acid, and drug using geniuses like Baudelaire, Hunter S Thompson, William Burroughs, Ken Kesey, Jack Kerouac, Jimi Hendrix, Robert Plant, Martin Scorsese... the list is endless...
Original post by KingBradly
Prejudism towards drug use is very stupid, but it is different to bigotry against gays because gays don't choose to be gay, so it inevitably says less about the substance of their character.


Humans have an innate desire to get high, this isn't a choice but we can choose whether to take drugs or not. Sexuallity isn't a choice but we can choose whether to have sex or not. The type of people we find attractive isn't a choice, the type of drugs we enjoy isn't a choice.
Original post by dingleberry jam
Humans have an innate desire to get high, this isn't a choice but we can choose whether to take drugs or not. Sexuallity isn't a choice but we can choose whether to have sex or not. The type of people we find attractive isn't a choice, the type of drugs we enjoy isn't a choice.


You can 'get high' from alcohol which is legal, has virtually no stigma and is the 'drug' of choice for the vast majority of people. Acting on your desire to get high doesn't force you to break the law

I'd also be interested to see a source for that if you have one
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Underscore__
You can 'get high' from alcohol which is legal, has virtually no stigma and is the 'drug' of choice for the vast majority of people. Acting on your desire to get high doesn't force you to break the law
Wish I could. I have crohn's, alcohol ****s me up and I never found it a particularly enjoyable drug.
Original post by Drunk Punx
Couple of questions fam:

1) Why is it wrong?
2) Who are they harming?
3) Smoking a joint is in no way equatable with raping someone, so why do you think recreational drug users and rapists should be treated the same as far as the social response is concerned?



1) It's not wrong if they chose to do it thmeselves.

However, medium to long term misuse of drugs overwhelmingly have a very negative effect on individuals and society as a whole. That's why they are illegal.

2) THey're harming themselves and society. By buying drugs, they support drug dealers and other forms of criminal behaviour. It's a revenue stream for criminals.

Harm to the individual:
Drugs are addictive and cause people to spend all their money on them. They face ficancial ruin because they spend all their money on drugs, drugs and more drugs.

Harm to society:
They then steal to fund their habbit. I think it's not far wrong to say that a reasonable abount of theft is the result of drugs, especialy in things like bicycles. Steal a £500 bike and sell it for £20 to someone so they can then buy their day's worth of drugs, same again tomorrow and the day after. They become unproductive members of society.

They pay their dealer, a drugdealer then pays a bigger dealer for his supply of drugs and so on and so forth. The payment of drugdealers funds larger, more serious criminals that persue other avenues of criminality that damages society.

You then get rival drug gangs that intimidate, bully and generally claim 'power' over areas and reduce the quality of life for all the people within it.

You might say "oh but for weed this isn't the case, you're crazy" but soft drugs can offen lead to harder drugs.

Dealers live off other people's suffering, because what they are selling is addictive, that is wrong.

3) They shouden't but dealers should be treated harshly.

If you look at what alcohol addiction does, it's much the same. People do all sorts of silly and disruptive things when they're drunk. Assault, battery, theft, criminal damage, vandalism, domesic violence, child abuse, child neglect, intimidation, anti-social behaviour etc etc.

The only difference is alcohol is sold legally and it still causes problems.
(edited 7 years ago)

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