The Student Room Group

GDL vs LLB from low Uni Who is better? Magic Circle

So let's say that you are an employer at a Magic circle firm. Which one would you hire?

Applicant one:
Has a First class Law degree LLB from Manchester Met Uni (Low ranked uni) but has then gone on to get an Oxford BCL. They have also passed the New York bar (as they could with the LLB)

Applicant Two:
Has a Politics degree (First class) from the University of York
Then has completed the GDL and has achieved a high grade.

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Original post by billy_k
So let's say that you are an employer at a Magic circle firm. Which one would you hire?

Applicant one:
Has a First class Law degree LLB from Manchester Met Uni (Low ranked uni) but has then gone on to get an Oxford BCL. They have also passed the New York bar (as they could with the LLB)

Applicant Two:
Has a Politics degree (First class) from the University of York
Then has completed the GDL and has achieved a high grade.


I think applicant two. Presumably you're evaluating your options, and the second route seems just generally better, and easier to achieve. You can't guarantee that you'll get into Oxford for post-grad, and you can't guarantee you'd pass the New York bar, whereas going to York and completing the GDL seems like it'd be easier to complete.

But I have a question - why did you only get into Manchester Met for Law, yet you're considering getting into York Politics via clearing? Surely if your grades are good enough for York, you can at the very least get a place at a decent university for Law in clearing, which would simplify the entire process as the GDL wouldn't be required?
Original post by doctorwhofan98
I think applicant two. Presumably you're evaluating your options, and the second route seems just generally better, and easier to achieve. You can't guarantee that you'll get into Oxford for post-grad, and you can't guarantee you'd pass the New York bar, whereas going to York and completing the GDL seems like it'd be easier to complete.

But I have a question - why did you only get into Manchester Met for Law, yet you're considering getting into York Politics via clearing? Surely if your grades are good enough for York, you can at the very least get a place at a decent university for Law in clearing, which would simplify the entire process as the GDL wouldn't be required?


York are currently clearing for Politics at BBB, I have ABCC and narrowly missed my offer for Leeds by one grade (was not even my fault!)
But let's say if that applicant did manage to get to Oxford, surely would be more desirable than someone with only a one year degree in Law.
Original post by billy_k
York are currently clearing for Politics at BBB, I have ABCC and narrowly missed my offer for Leeds by one grade (was not even my fault!)
But let's say if that applicant did manage to get to Oxford, surely would be more desirable than someone with only a one year degree in Law.


From what I can tell based on their website, York politics is only in clearing for international students (they state "The following courses only have places available for International students"), so do bear that in mind.

If you did get into Oxford, then yes, that would probably be better. But don't underestimate how competitive entry to Oxford will be.
Original post by doctorwhofan98
From what I can tell based on their website, York politics is only in clearing for international students (they state "The following courses only have places available for International students":wink:, so do bear that in mind.

If you did get into Oxford, then yes, that would probably be better. But don't underestimate how competitive entry to Oxford will be.


They are also clearing for Sociology which I managed to get a B in. The reason I want to do the LLB is because it allows graduates to sit the NY bar. I do not think that the GDL allows them to sit the NY bar. Do you know if they can?
Original post by billy_k
They are also clearing for Sociology which I managed to get a B in. The reason I want to do the LLB is because it allows graduates to sit the NY bar. I do not think that the GDL allows them to sit the NY bar. Do you know if they can?


Ah true, I think you do need an LLB in order to sit the NY Bar exam without doing any more formal qualifications. If you really want to be able to sit the Bar exam without gaining any US qualifications, then continuing with your Manchester Met Law degree is probably your best choice. If you don't get into Oxford, then you could perhaps get an LLM from a reputable university (such as York) to enhance your CV, but it'll still be an uphill battle to get the training contract you want, as your competition will likely be in a better position.
I would probably take applicant 2, all else being equal.

A decent, consistent record is preferable to a varied record.
Original post by doctorwhofan98
but it'll still be an uphill battle to get the training contract you want, as your competition will likely be in a better position.


Why would still be an uphill battle if the applicant has a first in Law, has an LLM and has passed the NY bar? Surely they are stronger than the applicant who went to a Red Brick to get a degree in History and then did a one year law Diploma?
Original post by TurboCretin
I would probably take applicant 2, all else being equal.

A decent, consistent record is preferable to a varied record.



But applicant one actually spent 4 years studying law, rather than one year like applicant two who has a degree in non-law
I very much doubt you'll be able to get into Oxford for postgrad after going to Manchester Met. That's literally going from the bottom to the top.
Original post by billy_k
Why would still be an uphill battle if the applicant has a first in Law, has an LLM and has passed the NY bar? Surely they are stronger than the applicant who went to a Red Brick to get a degree in History and then did a one year law Diploma?


For magic circle law firms, it'll surely be an uphill battle for pretty much everyone who hasn't got a First class Law degree from Cambridge and who's done vacation schemes every summer for ages. I'm not saying you won't be successful, but don't presume that your grades, LLM uni and NY bar will allow you to automatically secure a training contract.

Just out of interest, why do you want to sit the NY bar? I know it's possible with your LLB, but it'd be extremely difficult to pass (people with Harvard post-grad law degrees will struggle, so having no US law qualifications will make it even more difficult for you). Is it something that the top firms really want, to the extent that it would give you a big advantage? It'd take a long time to study for and if there's no major benefit to having passed it (it could take several attempts), then it may be worth using the time gaining work experience in the UK.
Original post by #ChaosKass
I very much doubt you'll be able to get into Oxford for postgrad after going to Manchester Met. That's literally going from the bottom to the top.


I know people who have gone to Essex Uni and then have gone on to do a BCL from Oxford which is one of the hardest degrees to get in to.
It all matters about meeting the entry requirements.
Original post by doctorwhofan98
For magic circle law firms, it'll surely be an uphill battle for pretty much everyone who hasn't got a First class Law degree from Cambridge and who's done vacation schemes every summer for ages. I'm not saying you won't be successful, but don't presume that your grades, LLM uni and NY bar will allow you to automatically secure a training contract.

Just out of interest, why do you want to sit the NY bar? I know it's possible with your LLB, but it'd be extremely difficult to pass (people with Harvard post-grad law degrees will struggle, so having no US law qualifications will make it even more difficult for you). Is it something that the top firms really want, to the extent that it would give you a big advantage? It'd take a long time to study for and if there's no major benefit to having passed it (it could take several attempts), then it may be worth using the time gaining work experience in the UK.


Having the ability to pass the New York bar is seen as a major advantage in applicants. I am not evens sure if I would like to practice in the U.K. I may even move to Canada or get an LLM from NYU and practice in the states. For that I would need an LLB. If I decided to stay in the UK and try to work for a magic circle I would certainly go to York or Leeds to do a non law then a graduate law.
Original post by billy_k
I know people who have gone to Essex Uni and then have gone on to do a BCL from Oxford which is one of the hardest degrees to get in to.
It all matters about meeting the entry requirements.


Getting a First is only the beginning - it's far from just meeting the entry requirements. They require a 2k piece of written work (the standard for that will be incredibly high!), and a personal statement, and they even reference publications on their admissions website. Even people who meet all of those requirements will still fail to get in, as only 16.79% of applicants are successful.

To put it simply, BCL at Oxford is beyond competitive. It's possible, but know that it's far from a certainty!
Original post by doctorwhofan98
Getting a First is only the beginning - it's far from just meeting the entry requirements. They require a 2k piece of written work (the standard for that will be incredibly high!), and a personal statement, and they even reference publications on their admissions website. Even people who meet all of those requirements will still fail to get in, as only 16.79% of applicants are successful.

To put it simply, BCL at Oxford is beyond competitive. It's possible, but know that it's far from a certainty!


I was giving the lady an example. I do not intend to apply for the BCL. But I was making the point that you do not have to go to a Russell Group or Oxbridge in order to study there for a graduate course.
Original post by billy_k
I was giving the lady an example. I do not intend to apply for the BCL. But I was making the point that you do not have to go to a Russell Group or Oxbridge in order to study there for a graduate course.


Ah ok, fair enough
Original post by billy_k
Having the ability to pass the New York bar is seen as a major advantage in applicants. I am not evens sure if I would like to practice in the U.K. I may even move to Canada or get an LLM from NYU and practice in the states. For that I would need an LLB. If I decided to stay in the UK and try to work for a magic circle I would certainly go to York or Leeds to do a non law then a graduate law.


I have no idea where you've heard that but it really isn't true. Why would a firm which practices English law give a toss about passing the NY bar? It would be regarded as irrelevant to your application, and if anything would be detrimental as it may indicate you really want to work in NY.
Original post by Conzy210
I have no idea where you've heard that but it really isn't true. Why would a firm which practices English law give a toss about passing the NY bar? It would be regarded as irrelevant to your application, and if anything would be detrimental as it may indicate you really want to work in NY.


It is great for large firms in London which have branches in NYC as well. Having the ability to practice law in two different countries is unique and special. Big time lawyers Like Amal Clooney are also members.
Original post by billy_k
It is great for large firms in London which have branches in NYC as well. Having the ability to practice law in two different countries is unique and special. Big time lawyers Like Amal Clooney are also members.


Firms do not care if you've passed the NY bar. Trust me.

Your comment about Amal Clooney makes me genuinely believe you're a troll also.
Original post by billy_k
But applicant one actually spent 4 years studying law, rather than one year like applicant two who has a degree in non-law


Law firms do not care about this.*

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