£100000 is only £65000 after taxes

I'm not talking about mansions and Eton here, I'm talking about a decent family home and a local independent school. The sort of standard three or four bed homes, and the sort of schools that were the preserve of the upper middle class - not the rich, but the comfortably well-off.

As I've pointed out previously, even on £100k you will not have a take-home salary of £65k. Deduct pensions contributions - and likely things like student loan debt for younger people - and you're talking about more than £10k off that figure.

That'll earn you a house a bit above average (once you manage to save up a large deposit), potentially being able to run two family cars and a holiday abroad. We're not talking Rolls Royce money here, we're talking middle-middle class.

The idea that you are expected to have x, y and z is laughable.

I'm not talking about mansions and Eton here, I'm talking about a decent family home and a local independent school. The sort of standard three or four bed homes, and the sort of schools that were the preserve of the upper middle class - not the rich, but the comfortably well-off.

As I've pointed out previously, even on £100k you will not have a take-home salary of £65k. Deduct pensions contributions - and likely things like student loan debt for younger people - and you're talking about more than £10k off that figure.

That'll earn you a house a bit above average (once you manage to save up a large deposit), potentially being able to run two family cars and a holiday abroad. We're not talking Rolls Royce money here, we're talking middle-middle class.

When someone has worked hard all their life, from a young child until adulthood. Just so that they could get into a well respected and "well paid" job e.g a Doctor. Because all their life they have been told if you work really hard you can get a well paid job e.g a doctor a lawyer, a banker etc. and you will live better than your parents.

They have managed to get into medical school, which is no mean feat, its very hard. Only to realise they cant afford the life they have struggled and strived for. That they cant live better than their parents who had it so much easier - being part of the baby boomer generation. How do you think that person feels. That the only way for that person to get what they were promised is for them to get into huge debt.

Decades ago Doctors lived much better. They could afford Nicer homes and Nicer Cars they could afford to go on holiday. Now as a doctor my dad hasnt been able to take us on a holiday outside the UK for seven years! Yes their pay has technically increased. But inflation has increased more.

High Prices and Low Wages are the same damn thing!
Adam Smith agrees.

Why should that person settle for less, while they watch MP's get pay rise after pay rise. Why?

When someone has worked hard all their life, from a young child until adulthood. Just so that they could get into a well respected and "well paid" job e.g a Doctor. Because all their life they have been told if you work really hard you can get a well paid job e.g a doctor a lawyer, a banker etc. and you will live better than your parents.

They have managed to get into medical school, which is no mean feat, its very hard. Only to realise they cant afford the life they have struggled and strived for. That they cant live better than their parents who had it so much easier - being part of the baby boomer generation. How do you think that person feels. That the only way for that person to get what they were promised is for them to get into huge debt.

Decades ago Doctors lived much better. They could afford Nicer homes and Nicer Cars. Yes their pay has technically increased. But inflation has increased more.

High Prices and Low Wages are the same damn thing!
Adam Smith agrees.

Why should that person settle for less, while they watch MP's get pay rise after pay rise. Why?

Have you ever watched 'Call the Midwife'? I think by virtue of being born now, rather than 40/50 years ago, means you are better off. If for no other reason than the NHS, funded by these taxes you so lament. There's a whole score of things that were funded by taxes that make your life significantly better than even 30 years ago.

I'm not really sure what you're arguing. You made the point that a family on 110k finds things difficult - that is simply not true (outside of specific circumstances) and can only be the result of mismanaging money. Whether being a doctor enables you to have the lifestyle you wish to have, in comparison to what most people on here are talking about (those on average or below average salaries) is completely moot. The doctor has significantly more than them and is in no position to talk about not getting the things that were promised to them. Think about all those people told that if they worked hard and got a degree that there would be a job waiting for them and look at all these people with useless (in terms of their jobs) degrees - perhaps they're more hard done by than the doctor with their 110k? People are being squeezed into poverty, right here, right now, in our wonderful country than came 2nd in the Olympics.

I sure hope no one promised you a certain lifestyle. It is not owed to you. You are not entitled to it, no matter how hard you work, no matter what job you have. Doctors will always be amongst the highest paid, so becoming a doctor will put you nearer the top - whether than buys you a second hand car or a second car, well, it will be what it will be - you can't really use "I was promised a 5 bedroom house" as an excuse for a tax cut.

Also remember, the baby boomer generation are a disgrace when it comes to any kind of future planning. They took, took and took and gave no thought to the future. Modeling your expectations on them is a sure fire way to causing the next financial crisis.

Have you ever watched 'Call the Midwife'? I think by virtue of being born now, rather than 40/50 years ago, means you are better off. If for no other reason than the NHS, funded by these taxes you so lament. There's a whole score of things that were funded by taxes that make your life significantly better than even 30 years ago.

I'm not really sure what you're arguing. You made the point that a family on 110k finds things difficult - that is simply not true (outside of specific circumstances) and can only be the result of mismanaging money. Whether being a doctor enables you to have the lifestyle you wish to have, in comparison to what most people on here are talking about (those on average or below average salaries) is completely moot. The doctor has significantly more than them and is in no position to talk about not getting the things that were promised to them. Think about all those people told that if they worked hard and got a degree that there would be a job waiting for them and look at all these people with useless (in terms of their jobs) degrees - perhaps they're more hard done by than the doctor with their 110k? People are being squeezed into poverty, right here, right now, in our wonderful country than came 2nd in the Olympics.

I sure hope no one promised you a certain lifestyle. It is not owed to you. You are not entitled to it, no matter how hard you work, no matter what job you have. Doctors will always be amongst the highest paid, so becoming a doctor will put you nearer the top - whether than buys you a second hand car or a second car, well, it will be what it will be - you can't really use "I was promised a 5 bedroom house" as an excuse for a tax cut.

Also remember, the baby boomer generation are a disgrace when it comes to any kind of future planning. They took, took and took and gave no thought to the future. Modeling your expectations on them is a sure fire way to causing the next financial crisis.

20 -30 years ago, not half a century ago for goodness sake !

Why would anyone become a doctor then? When they could save all the dogid determination and hard work. To instead work as and marry a London Tube driver who earns £55k. What is the incentive to become a doctor then. And it's not just pay stagnation. The NHS has suffered massive cuts meaning doctors have to work longer and harder hours for no extra pay. Imagine me telling your dad to work an whole extra day for nothing. For a couple of tube drivers that's £110k a year but they take home much much more because of less taxes. Fair ?

The more vital your job is the more you should get paid. When you go in to hospital with a fatal injury a doctor is the one who will try everything to save your life. It's a doctor that will help you with depression, anxiety, PTSD and psychiatrists like my dad stop people from commuting suicide pretty much everyday at work. So why do they get to live worse off than a tube driver. Why is it my uncle can earn £850k a year + bonuses just by fiddling around with money all day? It's not fair. Taxes should be 40% on above 500k .

20 -30 years ago, not half a century ago for goodness sake !

Why would anyone become a doctor then? When they could save all the dogid determination and hard work. To instead work as and marry a London Tube driver who earns £55k. What is the incentive to become a doctor then. And it's not just pay stagnation. The NHS has suffered massive cuts meaning doctors have to work longer and harder hours for no extra pay. Imagine me telling your dad to work an whole extra day for nothing. For a couple of tube drivers that's £110k a year but they take home much much more because of less taxes. Fair ?

The more vital your job is the more you should get paid.When you go in to hospital with a fatal injury a doctor is the one who will try everything to save your life. It's a doctor that will help you with depression, anxiety, PTSD and psychiatrists like my dad stop people from commuting suicide pretty much everyday at work. So why do they get to live worse off than a tube driver. Why is it my uncle can earn £850k a year + bonuses just by fiddling around with money all day? It's not fair. Taxes should be 40% on above 500k .

Just read your quote "doctors will always be amongst the highest paid" .

Excuse me ??

Do you have any idea what kind of salaries exist?? My uncle earns £850k + bonuses every year as a hedge fund manager! CEO s make millions. An oil rig worker in Aberdeen can expect to be paid 400k. You have no idea !

Doctors are the hardest workers and the most valuable workers of any of the ones I have just mentioned yet they get paid the least. That's one reason I'll never become a doctor. And don't think you are on £110k automatically. It takes years to get to a consultant level. It takes skill and it takes hard work. Some doctors never even become consultants they stay junior doctors. And junior doctors are not some doctors fresh from uni these are normal doctors who have been working 15 years usually. Don't tell me you haven't heard of all the **** that has been happening to so called "junior" doctors.

20 -30 years ago, not half a century ago for goodness sake !

Why would anyone become a doctor then? When they could save all the dogid determination and hard work. To instead work as and marry a London Tube driver who earns £55k. What is the incentive to become a doctor then. And it's not just pay stagnation. The NHS has suffered massive cuts meaning doctors have to work longer and harder hours for no extra pay. Imagine me telling your dad to work an whole extra day for nothing. For a couple of tube drivers that's £110k a year but they take home much much more because of less taxes. Fair ?

The more vital your job is the more you should get paid. When you go in to hospital with a fatal injury a doctor is the one who will try everything to save your life. It's a doctor that will help you with depression, anxiety, PTSD and psychiatrists like my dad stop people from commuting suicide pretty much everyday at work. So why do they get to live worse off than a tube driver. Why is it my uncle can earn £850k a year + bonuses just by fiddling around with money all day? It's not fair. Taxes should be 40% on above 500k .

Just read your quote "doctors will always be amongst the highest paid" .

Excuse me ??

Do you have any idea what kind of salaries exist?? My uncle earns £850k + bonuses every year as a hedge fund manager! CEO s make millions. An oil rig worker in Aberdeen can expect to be paid 400k. You have no idea !

Doctors are the hardest workers and the most valuable workers of any of the ones I have just mentioned yet they get paid the least. That's one reason I'll never become a doctor. And don't think you are on £110k automatically. It takes years to get to a consultant level. It takes skill and it takes hard work. Some doctors never even become consultants they stay junior doctors. And junior doctors are not some doctors fresh from uni these are normal doctors who have been working 15 years usually. Don't tell me you haven't heard of all the **** that has been happening to so called "junior" doctors.

When has it ever been much different?

Until people stop expecting the state to run their lives for them, taxation will never go down. This is the one big issue I have with many on the Left.

I'm curious as to which bits that the state currently run that you think people are better off doing themselves

The average salary is ~£26k. Plus the significant skew effect of high earners (take your 850k uncle, how many 20k earners does it require to bring the average back to 26k?). That means well over 50% of people earn under 26k - I don't know the actual numbers. But then a lot of people are in the main professional bracket (30-50k). Earning 110k easily puts you in the top 10%, if not the top 5%. You are one of the most fortunate families in the whole country, you really have to stop acting like a victim.

Running your own life and 'doing things yourself' are two very different statements.

What you mean is paying someone less fortunate than you a pittance to do all the chores you're too lazy to do and too tight to pay the council to do.