TSR Med Students' Society Part VI

Did you miss the bit about it all being instigated by the doctor and not solicited by the patients?

Well, they could have just been saying yes to be polite rather than actually wanting the prayers. It's bad practice imo - personal religious beliefs shouldn't come into how patients are treated. I remember how uncomfortable I felt when I was a patient in that situation.

How did you reach the conclusion that the doctor praying with the patient somehow equates his personal beliefs coming into how he treats the patient?

Once again, I do not understand what the fuss is all about. I don't understand why prayers should make anyone uncomfortable, but if it did, it's as easy as saying, "please don't pray for/with me". Reasons do not even have to be given. I do not think it is in any way inappropriate.

Then what else is it?



Having been a patient in a similar situation (who is religious too, might I add), I completely disagree. It's not as easy as that at all - especially given what I was being treated for at the time. With the greatest respect, you sound rather naive about how patients could see things.

Are you under the impression that having religious beliefs hinders a doctor from appropriately administering medical treatment?

You claim to be religious, and I assume you're a medical student, or a doctor. Does sharing your religious beliefs with a patient, if you believe that it would help them feel better, whether physically or psychologically, impact on your ability to make succinct medical decisions?

I'm not naive about anything, except clearly in your head. My point was and still remains, there is absolutely nothing wrong or inappropriate with what the doctor did.

As adults living in a civilised nation, where free speech is not restrained and celebrated (at least used to be), if someone suggests something that you are not in support of, rather than moan about being uncomfortable to others, simply politely tell them that you do not wish to partake in whatever activity they suggest.

I don't get this free speech argument here. Can I use my freedom of speech to belittle a patient's beliefs then?

Have a nice day.

Does sharing your religious beliefs with a patient, if you believe that it would help them feel better, whether physically or psychologically, impact on your ability to make succinct medical decisions?

My point was and still remains, there is absolutely nothing wrong or inappropriate with what the doctor did.

Straw man. No one said this.



If you know the patient has specific religious beliefs that mirror your own, then sure. To go out and assume they want your religious intervention when this isn't apparent (as per the second case) is inappropriate.



I do believe that using superstition to treat patients is inappropriate. Look at how OP worded it; it's not merely a comforting action. It's about 'praying away disease'. Medicine should be evidence based...

Maybe I misread it, but there was apparently nothing more that could be done, and if the doctor praying with the patient or the doctor reinforcing the patient's beliefs is comforting for the patient, I don't see how that is a bad thing.

I think we have to remind ourselves that it is beyond the medical condition that makes a patient a patient. Showing compassion isn't just limited to demonstrating empathy. If there is some deeper connection over shared values, that's a good thing.

37. You must be aware of how your behaviour may influence others within and outside the team.

54. You must not express your personal beliefs (including political, religious and moral beliefs) to patients in ways that exploit their vulnerability or are likely to cause them distress.

30. During a consultation, you should keep the discussion relevant to the patient’s care and treatment. If you disclose any personal information to a patient, including talking to a patient about personal beliefs, you must be very careful not to breach the professional boundary§ that exists between you. These boundaries are essential to maintaining a relationship of trust between a doctor and a patient.

31. You may talk about your own personal beliefs only if a patient asks you directly about them, or indicates they would welcome such a discussion. You must not impose your beliefs and values on patients, or cause distress by the inappropriate or insensitive expression of them

Summary point: doctors should not share their private moral views with patients unless explicitly invited to do so.

Although the BMA recognises the importance of frankness and openness with patients, this does not extend to doctors offering unsolicited opinions about their own moral views. Although all doctors have private moral views, they should not share them unless explicitly asked by patients to do so.

In 2008, a nurse was suspended on the basis of failing to demonstrate a professional commitment to equality and diversity, after offering to pray for a patient, who reported the comment. She was re-instated but it was made clear that offering prayers is only acceptable when patients ask for them.

The issue was discussed at the BMA's 2009 annual meeting, which recognised that the NHS is committed to providing spiritual care but that the initiative for it must rest with the patient.

*Snip*

Just going to leave the GMC Good Medical Practice here...



Also the GMC Personal Beliefs and Medical Practice:


Also the equivalent BMA guidance:



It's important to be objective when discussing sensitive things like religion (in terms of us in this thread). In my interpretation of the guidance, and given the precedent set by previous FtP proceedings, the most appropriate actions are clear.

What is your aim if you were to report it? Did he force anyone to pray with him? Did he forcefully pray for anyone? If it made you feel uncomfortable, you could have very easily excused yourself. I'm pretty sure he didn't ask you to be part of the prayers did he? The patients in question wanted the prayers. The senior doctor in question did ask if they would like him to pray with them. I don't see what the fuss is about.

Appreciate your opinions as much as everyone else.

My aim would be to end that particular practice. I have no desire for that individual doctor to lose their position, to face FtP proceedings, to be run through the press etc. - I could tell they are an excellent doctor - but that part of their consultation should stop.

It did appear to be a forced prayer - what initially seemed like "I will add you to my list to pray for" actually turned out to be a touchy-feely almost papal blessing. It's nice to know what you're agreeing to before it happens.

I was not asked to be part of the prayers but neither could I easily escape the confines of the side room without walking through people or being exceptionally rude to someone that was kind enough to teach me.

Everything said, if you're a non-believer, this could be interpreted as harmless words to an imaginary friend that can't harm anyone. It's when it becomes "I won't have the original treatment" or "I will say I'm religious so the doctor likes me more" that we're in a grey area.