Muslim family kicked off plane in London after passenger complains

Original post by JustAStudent14

Consequences of the media and ignorance in society, so people can't even text in their own language now?

Where does it say that's what they were doing?

Reply 22

Dodgypirate

6

Original post by Zamestaneh

So is racially profiling black people and calling the police because I see a black person standing on a street corner doing nothing okay?

It's a matter of perception, and what you mean by "nothing".

If I saw a bunch of yobs hanging around a house or shop, I'd be concerned. Would I call the police? I'm not sure, I personally would wait until it was 100% certain they were committing or about to commit a crime. Some people may call the police straight away regardless of the race of the people, others will call the police because of the race.

I'm not saying reporting people because of their skin colour or religion is "okay", you're missing the point.

Reply 23

Reformed

14

Original post by Zamestaneh

Whether the perceived threat is actually real or not, the sentiment is the same irregardless i.e. even if the Jews posed no real threat to the non-Jewish Europeans, they were still perceived to be one, and therefore the bigotry and fear is of equal value.

its not exactly the same - as the 1930s jews did not give any example of any threat, but it was essential dislike ( and perhaps jealousy) of them within europe that precipitated their persecution

in the current climate there is an undenieble problem from withing the islamic world fo terrorism, that muslims have not gotten a handle on. it is left to the non muslim world and in our case , western governments to manage the issue. andss it is understandable that even the most openminded and tollerant british person ( ie not the long term xenophobe) will now start to feel more edgy when confronted with a situation like the one on the plane. whereas if it were a full dressed up hisidic jew doing the same thing, or perhaps hindu tradtional dress, or even a buddhist monk in toga, i doubt anyone would bat an eyelid.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 24

Dez

Original post by Dodgypirate

It was only a reaction because it was discovered that the passengers weren't doing anything wrong at all.

You fail to observe both sides of this scenario.

Are you going to call my fear of horses "irrational" because 1 in 1,000,000 people get kicked by horses? No. The reason I'm petrified of them is because I was seriously hurt by one in the past. I know horses are generally harmless and only kick out for certain reasons, but there's still a danger.

This is the same reasoning.

I'm on a plane and I see something that catches my attention. In my mind, I believe that it is terrorism-related, and instead of keeping my mouth shut, I speak out.

If I'm proven wrong I will apologise, of course.

It's unfortunate that in this case the accuser was totally wrong, but we can't call them "evil" or "Islamophobic".

This could easily turn into another Rotherham...

This is basically the definition of an irrational fear though, that is, one that doesn't have a factual basis behind it. Fear of flying in general is irrational, as it is in fact far safer than almost any other means of transport. Fear of spiders is irrational (at least in the UK), since very few arachnids are actually harmful to humans. Yet people still have these fears, and in this case it almost lead to an innocent man being arrested. That's unfortunate, in my view. The world would be a better place if people didn't fear terrorists, after all, fear is exactly what the goal of terrorism is.

Also a quick note, I have not once used the words "evil" or "Islamaphobic" in this thread, so please don't try and shove words into my mouth (or keyboard).

Reply 25

Plagioclase

Original post by Reue

They were taken off and questioned because someone reported that they were looking at illegal isis material on their phone. The police questioned them and then allowed them back on the plane.

If someone had reported a passenger was looking at illegal child porn on their phone you would expect the exact same response.

Seems like an entirely reasonable reaction by the airline and police.*

Absolutely not. The only thing that suggested they were looking at "illegal ISIS material" was the fact that they were reading arabic text. For anybody with half a brain cell, arabic is not indicative of, or synonymous with terrorism. There was absolutely no legitimate reason for this family to be suspected of any crime, this is the product of our society demonising anything remotely related to the middle east and the Islamic world.

Reply 26

The Epicurean

17

Original post by Ladbants

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/23/muslim-siblings-hauled-of-easyjet-flight-after-claims-they-were/

They were kicked off the plane at Stansted airport because a passenger thought that they were writing a text message in Arabic, which later turned out to be false.

There was also a recent issue where a woman on plane was reading a book about Syria.

All airports have security checks in place already. These checks obviously do work as terrorist attacks on planes are quite rare.

Original post by Zamestaneh

Islamaphobia is on the rise, people becoming more ignorant and right wing, prejudice and profiling increasing, anti-Muslim programs e.g. Prevent are being introduced...

But you are socially right wing yourself :confused:

Won't be long until Muslims will be forced to wear bright yellow cresent moons stitched into their clothes by the looks of it...

The so-called Islamic Society on TSR would implement such a rule for Shia and Ahmadi Muslims long before such a policy would happen in the UK.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 27

Original post by Plagioclase

Absolutely not. The only thing that suggested they were looking at "illegal ISIS material" was the fact that they were reading arabic text. For anybody with half a brain cell, arabic is not indicative of, or synonymous with terrorism. There was absolutely no legitimate reason for this family to be suspected of any crime, this is the product of our society demonising anything remotely related to the middle east and the Islamic world.

I must have misread the article. Where does it say the suspicion related to Arabic text?

Reply 28

Plagioclase

Original post by Reue

I must have misread the article. Where does it say the suspicion related to Arabic text?

Oh, it didn't. Which makes it even more ridiculous.

Reply 29

Dodgypirate

6

Original post by Dez

This is basically the definition of an irrational fear though, that is, one that doesn't have a factual basis behind it. Fear of flying in general is irrational, as it is in fact far safer than almost any other means of transport. Fear of spiders is irrational (at least in the UK), since very few arachnids are actually harmful to humans. Yet people still have these fears, and in this case it almost lead to an innocent man being arrested. That's unfortunate, in my view. The world would be a better place if people didn't fear terrorists, after all, fear is exactly what the goal of terrorism is.

Also a quick note, I have not once used the words "evil" or "Islamaphobic" in this thread, so please don't try and shove words into my mouth (or keyboard).

A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous. 2. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion. [From -phobia.]

What do you mean by a "factual basis" lol?

I was seriously hurt by a horse and now I fear them because of that aforementioned fact.

People are afraid of terrorism because terrorism = death, and fear of death certainly isn't irrational. Don't you fear terrorism?!

Don't get your knickers in a twist, I know you didn't use the terms evil or Islamophobic, but the OP did for the latter, and a lot of people have used "evil" in other threads.

Was he arrested? I think he was detained...

Reply 30

dingleberry jam

3

Original post by Dodgypirate

It was only a reaction because it was discovered that the passengers weren't doing anything wrong at all.

You fail to observe both sides of this scenario.

Are you going to call my fear of horses "irrational" because 1 in 1,000,000 people get kicked by horses? No. The reason I'm petrified of them is because I was seriously hurt by one in the past. I know horses are generally harmless and only kick out for certain reasons, but there's still a danger.

This is the same reasoning.

I'm on a plane and I see something that catches my attention. In my mind, I believe that it is terrorism-related, and instead of keeping my mouth shut, I speak out.

If I'm proven wrong I will apologise, of course.

It's unfortunate that in this case the accuser was totally wrong, but we can't call them "evil" or "Islamophobic".

This could easily turn into another Rotherham...

You might want to read this comment too.

Christ, stop being scared of everything, grow some balls!

Reply 31

Original post by Plagioclase

Oh, it didn't. Which makes it even more ridiculous.

or not if someone believed they saw a beheading video.. but let's not let that get in the way of a good rant :wink:

OP has specified a text message, nowhere in the article does it mention that at all.*

Reply 32

Zamestaneh

Original post by Dodgypirate

So you're telling me that if the West had not "interfered" with the M.East, it would be paradise on Earth? :lol:

It would be much much much better, yes.

Notable things that the West has done (this isn't everything but just a tiny list):

- Broke up the caliphate of the Muslims (Ottoman Empire) into tiny fragments so that they are completely disunited and ignorantly nationalistic and inward looking rather than unified and co-operative - Arabs arent even united when they speak the same language, have the same religion, the same culture and are neighbours. This is a fundamental issue which has destabilised the whole region.
- Help establish a Jewish state on land where they were a minority at the expense of the majority non-Jews, and subsequently supported that state. Refugees have been forced into the surrounding countries. All of Israel's subsequent actions are therefore the fault of the West, which are the numerous wars, genocide against the Palestinians, etc.
- Intervening in the Iranian Revolution and reinstalling the Shah only to be overthrown in the Islamic Revolution. The previous revoluton was not Islamic, but the Islamic Revolution came about after Western intervention. All subsequent actions of the Islamic Republic of Iran are therefore the fault of the West. Iran has fought with Iraq which resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands Iranians, Iraqis and Kurds, and sectarian tensions have increased in the region.
- Arming other dictators generally because it suits them e.g. Saudi Arabia.
- Destroying infurstructure and governments and leaving power vacuums in countries e.g. Iraq, Libya.
- Funding and training Osama Bin Laden and other groups.

Etc etc etc.

So you are telling me that if all this didn't happen over the last 100 years, the Middle East would be the same as it is today? :lol:

Reply 33

moonkatt

19

Original post by Reue

or not if someone believed they saw a beheading video.. but let's not let that get in the way of a good rant :wink:

OP has specified a text message, nowhere in the article does it mention that at all.*

The article suggests it was a false allegation.

Reply 34

Dez

Original post by Dodgypirate

A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous. 2. A strong fear, dislike, or aversion. [From -phobia.]

What do you mean by a "factual basis" lol?

I was seriously hurt by a horse and now I fear them because of that aforementioned fact.

People are afraid of terrorism because terrorism = death, and fear of death certainly isn't irrational. Don't you fear terrorism?!

Why fear something that's so astronomically unlikely to ever happen? It would be like carrying around a metal umbrella out of fear of being hit by a meteorite.

Original post by Dodgypirate

Don't get your knickers in a twist, I know you didn't use the terms evil or Islamophobic, but the OP did for the latter, and a lot of people have used "evil" in other threads.

Okay, just don't paint me with the same brush please. :smile:

Original post by Dodgypirate

Was he arrested? I think he was detained...

I did say "almost arrested".

Reply 35

Little Popcorns

Ohhhh dear **** the balance to be struck here is a difficult one

Reply 36

Reformed

14

Original post by Zamestaneh

It would be much much much better, yes.

Notable things that the West has done (this isn't everything but just a tiny list):

- Broke up the caliphate of the Muslims (Ottoman Empire) into tiny fragments so that they are completely disunited and ignorantly nationalistic and inward looking rather than unified and co-operative - Arabs arent even united when they speak the same language, have the same religion, the same culture and are neighbours. This is a fundamental issue which has destabilised the whole region.
- Help establish a Jewish state on land where they were a minority at the expense of the majority non-Jews, and subsequently supported that state. Refugees have been forced into the surrounding countries. All of Israel's subsequent actions are therefore the fault of the West, which are the numerous wars, genocide against the Palestinians, etc.
- Intervening in the Iranian Revolution and reinstalling the Shah only to be overthrown in the Islamic Revolution. The previous revoluton was not Islamic, but the Islamic Revolution came about after Western intervention. All subsequent actions of the Islamic Republic of Iran are therefore the fault of the West. Iran has fought with Iraq which resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands Iranians, Iraqis and Kurds, and sectarian tensions have increased in the region.
- Arming other dictators generally because it suits them e.g. Saudi Arabia.
- Destroying infurstructure and governments and leaving power vacuums in countries e.g. Iraq, Libya.
- Funding and training Osama Bin Laden and other groups.

Etc etc etc.

So you are telling me that if all this didn't happen over the last 100 years, the Middle East would be the same as it is today? :lol:

i can agree with some , not al lof your claims -

yes the west toppled the ottomans, but out of self interest, seeing the ottomans had designs on conquering europe- so that was inevetable. in doing so, britain specifcally came up with the idea of 'arab nationalism' which eventully morphed into wahabist islamism. however pre and during ottoman rule the ME was not a beacon of peace, it was constant warring factions, and the arabs themselves were never satisfied that turks ruled mecca.

i agree regarding the wests meddling in iran,

the jews were entitled to a homeland in ME as much as muslims were. thats what islamic world cant get head around. the arabs were given their land and reunited with their holy land mecca by the brits too

agree regarding arming dictators. however the alternative to dictators in ME = Islamic State - becuaase 1400 years of islamic rule there has made democracy almost impossible.

agree regarding bin laden - but you forget scores of other islamist groups that the uk and usa funded and turned a blind eye to in the past, ie those based in pakistan and afganistan and operation cyclone. also a failure to crackdown o islamists operating out of the west itself for last 20 years

Reply 37