Why does God allow so much suffering?

That's a nice opinion you have there. Care to substantiate it at all? You could try using reason.

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I just quickly skimmed through the arguments and I'm assuming that you are using the cosmological/Kalam argument?

If so you have studied the challenges to the argument right? Because if you did you should know that there are a lot of contradictions/problems with the argument itself.

I don't feel like elaborating but the conclusion itself is outragous. The premise of the argument points to God as a creator. That's quite the assumption you have there. What God is it? Biblical? You don't know.

At most the argument might point towards something being there in the beginning but that doesn't have to be god.

It could be a team of creators. Its more likely to some sort of incompetent creator judging by the state of the universe. The universe itself could be eternal. Oscillating universe theory. Quantum mechanics have already been discussed. The point is the argument can't accurately point to god.

Also god is never the most rational explanation. It's the easiest one.

Hey there,

I admit I haven't done as much study as I'd have liked! But as to your objections:

It's true that the argument doesn't explicitly point to the God of the Bible, and a team of creators may be a possibility. What it does point to is a timeless, spaceless, mind(s) with free will. Now, admittedly, this isn't enough to definitively say 'this is clearly the Abrahamic God', but these are traditional attributes of that God, and, frankly, disproving Atheism by showing the existence of a deity/transcendent powers is quite enough of an achievement for most religious people (as I mentioned earlier, I'm a 'Theist', and don't associate with a particular faith, for now anyway).

It's the second premise which argues the universe's past is finite. To date, there is no successful model of an oscillating universe, they all fail due to problems like the build up of entropy. What's more, other scientific evidence such as the second law of thermodynamics and the Big Bang theory both also provide evidence for a finite past, as does the philosophical argument that it is impossible to traverse an infinite number of events, yet, seeing as we are here today, the number of events we (all matter) have traversed cannot be infinite. (Please look that up - I've given a pretty poor description, the real thing's much better and clearer!)





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I assume she takes Cosmos Daily News and The Universe Magazine?

The same reason why your parents left a coin under your bed instead of the "tooth fairy".
God is not real.

Atheism is not the believe that there is no such thing as an eternal entity. It is the belief that there is no benevolent father like figure watching over us...so if you think you have disproved atheism, you are quite wrong.

lol u r a 1 emma

If there are any Gods, they are far too brutal for me to blindly follow them.

It could be argued that suffering is a man made concept, in the sense that we assume 'God' to be unjustly rewarding crooks with wealth for example, however we are the ones who choose to see wealth as a reward.... and having 'bad people' run the world and hence choose the values one which society is run, is the only reason that the wealthy are the 'better off'....

I personally despise the willingness of these 'Gods' to allow such unreasonable suffering to happen, when in full knowledge that humans will never have a complete universal desire to do something (good) about it... it seems like a bit of blame shifting to say, 'God wills it as a test' either of the sufferers, or those witnessing the suffering, as if to suggest that we must let it happen and leave people be just because God chose them to live those experiences. If it's a test to see if we will help, it is a disturbing one - how can you choose a group to undergo hardship with an almost zero guarantee that the non sufferers will solve these problems.....

what dictionary do you use? atheism is disbelief that there is any supernatural being/diety of any kind.

And in what dictionary will you find the conclusion that this entity that exists according to this (fallacious) argument is such a deity?

What are you talking about?

You have described a deity, a supernatural being of some sort.

My point is so what? You still have to establish a link to your God. E.g. even if a supernatural entity existed, that in no way shape or form means it is the God that you wish exists.

OK, look, here's the straightforward answer( I don't care whether you agree or not, this is what I believe is true, and simply because I'm trying to answer your question and perhaps even guide you to what I believe is the truth doesn't mean you should believe me):
God exists.
He made this world to test us.
If life was perfect here, then what's the point of Paradise and Hell?
Here's something to prove God exists:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwimorf6sN7OAhWHVhoKHf_KD00QFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aljazeerah.info%2FIslamic%2520Editorials%2F2007%2FSeptember%2FThe%2520Scientific%2520Evidence%2520That%2520God%2520Exists%2520and%2520the%2520Holy%2520Qur%27an%2520Is%2520His%2520Message%2520to%2520Humanity%2520By%2520Hassan%2520Ali%2520El-Najjar.htm&usg=AFQjCNF_hXW4PkH0I6hH208p-ilvyqYgOA&bvm=bv.131286987,d.d2s

God is never the most rational anything for anything...

denial?

OK, look, here's the straightforward answer( I don't care whether you agree or not, this is what I believe is true, and simply because I'm trying to answer your question and perhaps even guide you to what I believe is the truth doesn't mean you should believe me):
God exists.
He made this world to test us.
If life was perfect here, then what's the point of Paradise and Hell?
Here's something to prove God exists:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwimorf6sN7OAhWHVhoKHf_KD00QFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aljazeerah.info%2FIslamic%2520Editorials%2F2007%2FSeptember%2FThe%2520Scientific%2520Evidence%2520That%2520God%2520Exists%2520and%2520the%2520Holy%2520Qur%27an%2520Is%2520His%2520Message%2520to%2520Humanity%2520By%2520Hassan%2520Ali%2520El-Najjar.htm&usg=AFQjCNF_hXW4PkH0I6hH208p-ilvyqYgOA&bvm=bv.131286987,d.d2s

It doesn't make any sense


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Delusional?

Meanwhile in a parallel universe where God actually decided to reveal himself, people like me would just believe.

Also, if the question: God knows everything, why test us, pops up...then I believe it's due to US needing to know the results of what we do or what happened to us. For instance, take a person born poor...Poor=scarce food etc..
This means us humans understand that the bad results of a state make that state a bad state, and a bad state shows us that the world isn't perfect. If those bad states happened to any other animal etc so that we can understand the previous points about bad states etc, then we humans wouldn't care as it isn't happening to us.,.
If god made us so caring, we'd bother, then I tell you, the world would be severely affected. If he adjusted the world in a way that allowed for extreme care to affect it POSITIVELY and ONLY positively, then the world would be perfect!
That's what I think, and believe is true, and God knows best.