Muslim family kicked off plane in London after passenger complains

Well, it is a rather scary religion, to be fair.

I don't hate Muslims though, the ideology itself disgusts me - yet that still makes me an Islamophobe by your definition encompasses both the religion AND the people.

Your definition prevents any criticism of Islam.

I still hate Islam and will continue to hate it.

Freedom of criticism does not give you freedom of hatred and bigotry.

Too often do you people wave your shield of "oh but I can criticise Islam" to justify hating and fearing ordinary Muslims.
You can pretend that you don't hate Muslims, but you hate their religion and almost every aspect of their lives, so you are hating on Muslims simultaneously to an extent.

I don't hate or fear individual Muslims... well at least not the radicals and jihadists.

I hate every single aspect of the religion, though.


Hating Islam doesn't mean I hate Muslims...

I thoroughly dislike all religions, but I don't have those who follow it (for the most part).

I'm still waiting for your source on 15% of all Muslims being extrmists

And you can pretend to be in the right all you like, but hating someone's culture implicitly has negative predispositions associated with them

I have an alternative interpretation.

The reason the west is the most advanced set of societies is because we live in the most fertile, most interconnected, most productive lands. With the industrial revolution, our industry picked up massively, sciences such as chemistry and physics improved massively, people started getting paid more money, people could get jobs more easily, we abandoned our traditional ways of society and improvised on capitalist democracy, and it worked out.

The reason that the Middle East still has religious governments and stuff is because its a desert, with poor land for development, poor farming capacity. Furthermore it has suffered brutal warlords and regimes throughout history, and it still is now. In a land where you are at constant threat from invading barbarians, just as the Middle Easterners were, and where your life depends on you making a living for yourself and surviving in harsh conditions, and where the economy and industry have lesser capacity to skyrocket - of course more extremist religions are going to start appearing. Of course they will be integrated with politics, a religion which justifies killing any foreign threat is perfectly understandable in the harsh wasteland of the ME back 1500 years ago.

But that was long ago. The world has changed, and so have almost all Muslims. So blaming a backwards culture or a barbaric faith is unwarranted when there are some fairly obvious reasons as to why they existed.

When you have the capacity to cherry-pick what to follow, and what not to follow in a religion - the fault is with the extremists who exploit this, and not the religion, whose community has evidently adapted.

Nope, it is a valid comparison because history is somewhat repeating itself

whereby one religious group is being demonised by the public, the media and the government,

and increasingly being targeted by laws and programs.

The obvious difference between my views and the UK is that it claims to be an open, secular and free society whereby no one individual group should be targeted and singled out,

I have explained to you numerous times that claiming something is 'sectarianism' doesn't actually mean anything. You need to define: what actually constitutes sectarianism?

You keep spouting that word to try to silence people or make them appear bigoted, but an academic critical appraisal of someone's beliefs does not constitute bigotry

I don't think you ever asked for it.

[video="youtube;g7TAAw3oQvg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg[/video]

**** me! UK Muslims comparing themselves the Jews in Nazi Germany!
It would be funny if it wasn't so ****ing disgusting.
Don't you get embarrassed when you say things like that?

Muslim family get kicked off plane = Protest by Muslims (and associated well meaning posters) about how unfair and racist the West is.

Multiple terrorist attacks committed by Islamists = Silence from mainstream Muslims. Multiple articles in the Guardian about how the West deserves it.

Islamophobia covers fear of Muslims or Islam

a fear of Muslims is completely unjustified and discriminatory, a fear of Islam is somewhat acceptable

most people who actually fear Islam haven't even been to high percentage (ie 95%+) communities

in remote parts of the world like India, Indonesia, etc, they do not run out with meat cleavers and try to behead non-believers on sight, lol

I'd be more annoyed if the police didn't investigate such claims.*

Are you out of your mind?

I am sure you will see if you looked at my post history that I have absolutely no love lost for Islam, but when another passenger for no reason other than hate accuses people of something and the people in charge listen, you say some bs about turning off electronic devices?

That is absolutely ridiculous mate

I don't think you ever asked for it.

[video="youtube;g7TAAw3oQvg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg[/video]

It's sad when people allow themselves to be ruled by irrational fear.

Governments are always telling people to be vigilante. You would be frothing at the mouth if your loved ones were massacrred in a terrorist attack and numerous people had not reported suspicious or circumstantial ongoings to police because they thought it was irrational

I have an alternative interpretation.

The reason the west is the most advanced set of societies is because we live in the most fertile, most interconnected, most productive lands. With the industrial revolution, our industry picked up massively, sciences such as chemistry and physics improved massively, people started getting paid more money, people could get jobs more easily, we abandoned our traditional ways of society and improvised on capitalist democracy, and it worked out.

The reason that the Middle East still has religious governments and stuff is because its a desert, with poor land for development, poor farming capacity. Furthermore it has suffered brutal warlords and regimes throughout history, and it still is now. In a land where you are at constant threat from invading barbarians, just as the Middle Easterners were, and where your life depends on you making a living for yourself and surviving in harsh conditions, and where the economy and industry have lesser capacity to skyrocket - of course more extremist religions are going to start appearing. Of course they will be integrated with politics, a religion which justifies killing any foreign threat is perfectly understandable in the harsh wasteland of the ME back 1500 years ago.

But that was long ago. The world has changed, and so have almost all Muslims. So blaming a backwards culture or a barbaric faith is unwarranted when there are some fairly obvious reasons as to why they existed.

When you have the capacity to cherry-pick what to follow, and what not to follow in a religion - the fault is with the extremists who exploit this, and not the religion, whose community has evidently adapted.

You have made a lot of points that beg a lot of questions. While I agree that environment and derived wealth can have an effect on development, you seem to be ignoring the fact that some of the most ideologically backward and superstitious of the Middle East countries are those with the most wealth.

How exactly does believing in the Islamic superstitions help you to live in a desert country?

Why do they (including the educated and wealthy rulers) stick to these old superstitions?

Why do they ignore what science (and its origin is irrelevant, it is still accessible to them) tells them and continue to believe in arrant nonsense?

When you say almost all Moslems have changed, which ones do you mean? It seems to me that most Moslems haven't changed. We daily see Moslems and Islamic countries persecuting people for having a different take on superstition - they are still buried in the seventh century. Pakistanis won't even allow law changes to help women because it would be unislamic.

Why do you ignore the point that Islam itself - the supposed word of Allah - tells Moslems they cannot cherry-pick and must follow Islam in its entirety, strongly encouraging them to remain in their seventh century hellhole of superstitious belief?

You refer to bad conditions being the only reason people stick with their beliefs, yet ignore the fact (as proved by educated posters here on TSR) that Moslems who move to the west very often continue to believe, live by and bring up their children by these nonsensical superstitions. And they then complain of being disadvantaged!

First off, don't presume to tell me how I would feel.

Second, vigilance is one thing (as a note, vigilante is quite another, but I'm guessing you meant vigilant), but that doesn't excuse paranoia. The passenger overreacted out of irrational fear, plain and simple.