Low ranked LLB or Russell Group BA and GDL?

Hello, so I have received a place to study LLB (3 years) law at a low ranked university (ranked around 52 or so). My question is, should I either attempt to get a first class degree from this low ranked uni and then try to get on to the Oxford BCL, or should I get a non-law degree from a clearing Russell Group uni like Manchester or York and then do the GDL?

Many top chambers and firms have barristers who have a degree in a non law subject from a Russell Group and then they do the GDL.
I am worried that my LLB from a low ranked uni will not be valued enough, even if I get a BCL from oxford.

I would do the BA and GDL, not being in a top twenty when it comes to Law can restrict your options. The question is though, do you really like this low ranking Uni?


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Hi, thank you for your response. I did some research and contacted a few top firms such as Freshfields. They told me that where I go to university does not really matter. They are looking for top grades and great experience.
In addition to this, I hope to take the New York bar and possibly peruse an LLM degree. If I went down the BA and GDL route, this would not be possible.

Hi, I am a solicitor working at a firm in the City. In relation to what Freshfields have told you, while that is the line they peddle, in reality law firms are very, very interested in the university you went to. It won't form part of the "official" criteria upon which they select, but it will be certainly be something they look at. And frankly, a low-level LLB (even if you get top grades in your modules) would, in my view, not be looked on that favourably. If you don't believe me, take a look at the profiles of junior solicitors at City law firms including Freshfields - I doubt you'll fine anyone who has attended a non-RG university.

I would try to do the best degree possible at the best university - you should then only do the GDL and LPC if a firm sponsors you. Of course, this route will mean you will incur some extra expenses in relation to the living expenses for the GDL (on the basis that a firm's sponsorship will not cover all of them), but it should be worth it.

I also have the NY bar - be aware that it is of ZERO help in getting a training contract. I did it for different reasons (I wanted to pursue a career outside of the UK). I happen to also have an LLM - again, it will be, unless it is in a niche area like competition law or similar, very little use in getting a training contract. By all means do both if you want to for whatever reasons you may have (I massively enjoyed doing both and they were enriching experiences), but please don't feel the need to do them to get a training contract.

I hope this is of some use. Ultimately however the decision is yours, but as a (junior) solicitor at a good City law firm, that's my view.

Hi, I am a solicitor working at a firm in the City. In relation to what Freshfields have told you, while that is the line they peddle, in reality law firms are very, very interested in the university you went to. It won't form part of the "official" criteria upon which they select, but it will be certainly be something they look at. And frankly, a low-level LLB (even if you get top grades in your modules) would, in my view, not be looked on that favourably. If you don't believe me, take a look at the profiles of junior solicitors at City law firms including Freshfields - I doubt you'll find anyone who has attended a non-RG university.

I would try to do the best degree possible at the best university - you should then only do the GDL and LPC if a firm sponsors you. Of course, this route will mean you will incur some extra expenses in relation to the living expenses for the GDL (on the basis that a firm's sponsorship will not cover all of them), but it should be worth it.

I also have the NY bar - be aware that it is of ZERO help in getting a training contract. I did it for different reasons (I wanted to pursue a career outside of the UK). I happen to also have an LLM - again, it will be, unless it is in a niche area like competition law or similar, very little use in getting a training contract. By all means do both if you want to for whatever reasons you may have (I massively enjoyed doing both and they were enriching experiences), but please don't feel the need to do them to get a training contract.

I hope this is of some use. Ultimately however the decision is yours, but as a (junior) solicitor at a good City law firm, that's my view.

Hi, I am a solicitor working at a firm in the City. In relation to what Freshfields have told you, while that is the line they peddle, in reality law firms are very, very interested in the university you went to. It won't form part of the "official" criteria upon which they select, but it will be certainly be something they look at. And frankly, a low-level LLB (even if you get top grades in your modules) would, in my view, not be looked on that favourably. If you don't believe me, take a look at the profiles of junior solicitors at City law firms including Freshfields - I doubt you'll find anyone who has attended a non-RG university.

Too many people want to get into law and are entangled into this dream from the sixth form. Trying to chase this dream when all the academic credentials are pointing otherwise is a bit foolish and seems like the reason many aspiring lawyers get caught up in 15k a year paralegal work. The question is: do you really need it?

There is very little hard information on the academic background of those who actually do qualify as lawyers and fewer still on the number practising say 5 years from qualification.

About 1 in 5 law graduates will actually ever qualify as a solicitor or barrister, but there appears to be much greater variety in the academic background of those who succeed in qualifying than a snapshot of the Magic Circle would suggest.

I certainly don't think that there is a correlation between lower ranked university and paralegalling. You must also remember there are really two paralegalling markets. One involves PI and conveyancing "factories" and commercial firms to some extent signing up people who already have the LPC for jobs with no career progression. The other takes people with a variety of backgrounds into entry level roles which often lead to training contracts in smaller firms.

If fact if the OP does what you say, he will find trainees and junior solicitors at Freshfields from various non-RG universities. For traineeships commencing in 2018 Freshfields recruited from 32 UK and Irish universities.

Why isn't this so? Lower ranked universities tend to attract people with certain grades at A-level, grades that won't go through the standard AAB/ABB filter and so, they try to settle for the lower positions in a law firm, hoping to get that TC after working their way up, when in reality they effectively become cheap labour with no prospects whatsoever (Obviously, though, this depends on the firm).
I am not saying that the graduates from RG universities don't get caught in the same trap, but they are more likely to make a competitive application for a TC and with suitable academic they are more likely to keep going with their search for a TC, whereas without such academics it is easier to get disheartened and give up after the first round of rejections.

... I will get my LLB and then sit the NY bar in the hopes of working as a lawyer in the U.S.

This is certainly possible, but just be aware that you will come against visa and immigration restrictions (unless you have an existing right to work in the US). You may need to get an employer to sponsor you which may limit the jobs which you can apply for. Depending on the type of job you are after, an employer may not look at your application seriously unless you have an LLM from a good US university. And, if you are aiming to work at a US office of a firm like A&O then the hours will not be better than London and, in many cities, there will also be accommodation issues.

That said, I do know people who have studied in the UK/Ireland and who have got jobs in the US after taking the NY bar exam without doing an LLM. They tend to start off working at small firms first - either immigration or criminal defence - and move on from there.

Yes, I have researched all the ways on obtaining H-1B visas etc. Since you have said that you know people who have done their UK undergrad here and then have gone to work in the U.S, out of curiosity: which universities did they attend?

Too many people want to get into law and are entangled into this dream from the sixth form. Trying to chase this dream when all the academic credentials are pointing otherwise is a bit foolish and seems like the reason many aspiring lawyers get caught up in 15k a year paralegal work. The question is: do you really need it?

The whole thing is an absolute minefield . I'm the parent of a MC trainee and have a few relatives who are lawyers both here and in the US . I know of a few people who were caught up in the whole 'Lathamed' fiasco after 2008 and entering the profession in the US is even harder than here . My son was very fortunate to get a MC training contract at first attempt but a friend , MPhil from Cambridge who self funded the GDL and LPC is on the fourth cycle of trying . You only have to read these forums to see how tough it is and today I was reading that there are 23,000 Law students starting Uni this year with an average of 5500 TC's available . I feel that many are being fed a dream and the only people getting rich are lecturers at universities .

Thank you very much for the response. I long decided that I do not wish to become a lawyer in London now. I visited my cousin (who works for Allen and Overy) and I did not enjoy London. I do not want a lifestyle where I work from 9 in the morning to 8pm at night, to go home to a tiny apartment in London due to the housing crisis.
Instead, I will get my LLB and then sit the NY bar in the hopes of working as a lawyer in the U.S.