I don't know how anyone can eat meat :-(

Lambs are so fluffy too. Horrible way to go..

*Vegetarian And yes I'd rather starve and eat vegemite (which I hate) than eat beef because cows are sacred and I'm against meat consumption anyway. But it's irritating that you get militant veggies who make meat eaters feel guilty about eating meat. I went out with an vegan mate a while back and I ordered a veggie burger with mayo. She kept telling me that milk was murder. I can't tell you how annoying it was.

So because you don't like the reality you'll cut off your nose to spite your face? The cows have already been bred to produce more milk and are and will continue to be treatedas such. Throwing a tantrum over it will hardly help.

Is an insect's life as valuable as a human?

I don't think life is innately valuable, speciesism is definitely the solution to the ethical dilemma of eating meat.

Tea and coffee are not vegan?

If the substitute food was also nice to eat then yes.

If not, then i'd probably eat less meat.
I'm envisaging a Whey protein shakes type scenario but scaled up to 'real food'. Vegans wouldn't like that though.

I love milk, like 2 pints+ a day. Frequently more but as an average or even minimum, i'd say 2 pints.
Just love the taste of whole milk. So i'd never be vegan as i really like the taste of milk so replacing a substiture for me would be almost impossible.


As much as you pose and interesting question to me, i don't really like to deal in hypotheticals/fantasyland.

I'd rather we use science to fight disease and look for cures etc.

Creating a proper meat substitute is miles away.


Nobody can look at situation without bias, particularly if one is in one camp or another.
I am biased but i try to be as neutral as possible

Is an insect's life as valuable as a human?

I don't think life is innately valuable, speciesism is definitely the solution to the ethical dilemma of eating meat.

No. I don't place the same value on an animal's life as I do on a human's life, due to moral agency and personhood. That's the line I draw.

There's the argument to be made that this is speciesist. But those who make the speciesist argument don't tend to place the same value on the life of fish, or insects, or bacteria, that they do on the lives of farm animals. So that's not internally consistent from the get-go.

Yeah. It does. If I kill an animal in a way that it inflicts excess suffering, that's immoral. If I quickly kill an animal in a painless, minimally distressing way, that's different.

Yes but what I mean is that they aren't intelligable creatures, they can't feel pain so if you compare a fish to a pig- which one is most likely to suffer? Obviously a pig- which are highly intelligable animals. Don't you think the ways on-land animals are raised and then killed, are much more extreme. Wow, you're comparing a fish- which cannot recognise pain- against animals like pigs which are highly intelligable creatures and are more likely to sense that they are going to die..well done you!

If you checked the Rainforest Alliance website then you would notice that they have ethical values...so which is better:
MacDonalds who say they care about the environment but are continuing to cut down the rainforest to make way for cattle farming or..
Rainforest Alliance who not only help their farmers to understand about climate change but also:
-support farmers and communities (alot better than MacDonalds minimum wage)
-protect land and waterways
-improve incomes

Now here are the benefits of becoming a vegetarian- this relates to health:
-Low Blood Pressure
-Lower Risk of Death -"a 2013 study of more than 70,000 people found that vegetarians had a 12% lower risk of death compared with non-vegetarians".
-Better Moods
-Less chance of heart disease - Another 2013 study of 44,000 people reported that vegetarians were 32% less likely to develop ischemic heart disease.
-Less likely to be overweight -Research shows that vegetarians tend to be leaner than their meat-eating counterparts, and that they also tend to have lower cholesterol and body mass index (BMI). Some data suggests that a vegetarian diet can help with weight loss and be better for maintaining a healthy weight over time.
-Lower risk of diabetes.

I honestly think that in 100 years we'll look back on meat-eaters the same way we look back on slave-owners now. It's a subject that completely doesn't resolve morally if you think that causing suffering is bad. And y'know, most people do.

We didn't breed humans with the sole intention of enslaving them (some will claim it did happen but it is not comparable to the meat industry in that sense).

No. I'm saying why the meat industry =/ slavery.

Animals are not 'enslaved'.

Or murdered. Since they're not people.

Hahahahha that is amazing! Are you actually saying animals are not murdered for that chicken burger or steak that you desire??
That's by far the stupidest thing that's been said on this thread, and there have been a lot of stupid things said...
Please think through what you're actually saying before you post.

I completely respect vegetarians but I don't like those who try to get some moral high ground out of it - i.e. those who think less of me for eating meat-based meals.

We evolved by eating meat, and it's only little attention seekers like yourself who've come along recently and made the whole vegetarian/vegan bull**** rife. No offence to you, I respect your decision, but I personally couldn't care less about the animal - I like meat, I will eat meat.