A homosexual CofE Bishop!!

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I asked if you had any of your own cogitations on, for example, why a woman must remain silent in church.

Do you not have any independent thoughts on how you should live your own life?

Amen

Original post by leavingthecity

I asked if you had any of your own cogitations on, for example, why a woman must remain silent in church.

Do you not have any independent thoughts on how you should live your own life?

I consulted my mother regarding this issue, who happened to have done her degree in Theology at Manchester university; and she said that Paul wrote this as a response to the disordered nature of the meetings in the early church whereby women would spend a lot of gossiping and interrupting the services to ask questions hence Paul's recommendation of keeping quiet and asking husbands.

I do but I try and live my life by the Bible teachings generally

Reply 43

matt991610

Original post by leavingthecity

So to be a real Christian is to believe this book, in it's entirety, no cherry picking? ....I really want to believe you're of this opinion because there's a lot of it you just haven't read.

Good for him.

Ok. I just had to answer this before sleeping! When we invalidate certain parta of the old testament, its because when Jesus came, the old covenant was destroyed and he made the new covenant. Some things in thw old covenant were removed from the new covenant as when Jesus came, he made them irrelevant through his new covenant. Also, like i said for all the other hasrsh issues and feminism see somw od malcom Duncan's work whixh provides a biblical basis for female equality and leadership, something he is passionate about in church.

Reply 44

username2385417

Really? You believe that? Ok so it could have been the result of witnessing an unruly congregation with the main disrupters being chatty women. But it's been written down, quite obviously, as an instruction for church going women specifically to remain silent. Bit of an overreaction on Paul's part there. So now we ask; how much of Paul's letters are actually divine instruction and how much has come through a filter of the authors personal opinions and experiences?

Reply 45

Napp

He's not more the a peddler of stories who cares if he's a gay?

Reply 46

username1539513

Original post by leavingthecity

Yes I believe that, my mother would have no reason to lie and neither would her lecturers especially as Manchester University is a secular university, not a Theological/ Bible college.

I don't see how you can choose some scripture to be authentic and God inspired and then disregard the rest of it because it doesn't fit in with your world view. Either all of Scripture is given by God and is fit for teaching or none of it is. Pick one or the other. Either way, yes I believe that all of the Bible is divinely inspired.

Reply 47

simbasdragon

Life's too short to be miserable, I'm happy for him that he's found someone he loves. If all religious figures embraced tolerance and love then the world would be a far more peaceful place than it is.

Reply 48

username2385417

I don't think you understand. No one had suggested that your mother is lying, but if her explanation is true then we cannot call that excerpt of the bible 'divinely inspired'. It's Paul disapproving of a few chatty women and being a tad high handed in ordering the silence of women across the religion. You see?

Reply 49

username1539513

Original post by leavingthecity

Paul wouldn't have written it unless he felt the Holy Spirit was prompting him to write it though, so it is still God speaking through Paul

Reply 50

Trapz99

Original post by leavingthecity

I asked if you had any of your own cogitations on, for example, why a woman must remain silent in church.

Do you not have any independent thoughts on how you should live your own life?

A Christian believes that God is perfect and they are not. God has perfect knowledge and we don't. Therefore if God has declared that woman must remain silent in church we should, as Christians, obey this not because we have a reason why this should be the case but because God has declared it. Trying to find our own justifications is sinful because we're trying to think that we are better than or comparable to God and that we know better than him, which is pride- a sin.

We aren't the ones who set the standard. God sets the standard and every human is guilty of having broken his law. We can't judge what is good and what is bad because we are all sinners- God is not and therefore we should get our information on what is sinful from Him.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 51

username2385417

So the Holy Spirit, interrupted by a group of gossiping women on one occasion - an isolated incident in a particular church, responds by removing the right of women to speak in all sermons across the religion?

Reply 52

username1539513

Original post by leavingthecity

I doubt it was on one occasion, it was a serial ongoing problem in the Early church which would have disrupted God's ministry and work. Order in the service is required so that God can work through the preacher to both uplift and teach current Christians and possibly convert any unbelievers present at the meetings. If the meeting was constantly being interrupted due to people talking vital spiritual information would have been missed and any unbelievers present would not only not come to know Christ but also perceive Christianity as being full of babbling fools and not take it seriously. It really was a matter of spiritual life or death that order was maintained in the service because God is a God of order and his services should represent Him

Reply 53

username2385417

Original post by Trapz99

So God tells you his knowledge and instruction are perfect and are not to be questioned, and you just agree because he has told you to, and you oblige because questioning is not permitted because he is God and his knowledge and instruction are perfect.
It's enough to make you dizzy.

Let's have more gay clergymen and more people thinking for themselves. Good on him!

Reply 54

Trapz99

Original post by leavingthecity

That is how I see it- God is far better than me or any other human in every way.

If you're not a Christian I don't see how the gay clergymen issue is any of your business to be honest.

Reply 55

username2385417

Original post by Trapz99

That is how I see it- God is far better than me or any other human in every way.

If you're not a Christian I don't see how the gay clergymen issue is any of your business to be honest.

It's of incredible importance to me because it's of possibly life-changing significance to my fellow human beings and amongst them my personal friends who are Christian or who have Christian family and who deserve to stop being treated as grotesque evil doers just because they show love to someone with the same chromosomes. What a unthinking assumption you make.

Reply 56

Trapz99

Original post by leavingthecity

They are grotesque evil doers. All humans are, including me. We've all sinned against God and need salvation in the form of Jesus Christ. If your friends are Christians then they would aim to repent of their sins and keep up the struggle against sin, not embrace it.

Reply 57

thegodofgod

He is not a 'sinner' as he is celibate.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37257005

Reply 58

username2385417

You really believe it was a wide spread problem of women being chatty in church? That the men sat there golden and attentive and that this problem was replicated in so many sermons that a ban on speech was needed? You believe that despite the cultural norm at this time of women being generally subordinate to men, that these women would have behaved in such a disruptive manner? You believe that it was proportionate to force them to go to their husbands for answers every time they didn't understand something in the teaching? Why could they not ask after the sermon?

Does this sound like the Holy Spirit or does it sound more like the typical cultural attitudes toward women that pervaded this part of the world and far beyond at this point in history?

You never addressed the instruction to veil the head or else cut off the hair.

Reply 59

username2385417

Original post by Trapz99

Why would he be grotesque and evil in gods eyes? Have you ever thought about why so much of who you naturally are is so repulsive to someone who is supposed to love you?