White nationalist movements are growing much more quickly than ISIS

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Answer my question please. Do Muslims just wake up suddenly and decide to join ISIS completely spontaneously?

Did you decide to be a socialist - also a murderous ideology - completely spontaneously?

No, you are one because you were brought up in a socialist environment.

The whole problem is the existence of a group of people who have a completely different and opposing ideology to everyone else. The small percentage willing to launch obviously doomed attacks are not the only ones who are a problem.

Reply 41

richpanda

Original post by alevelstresss

did you forget about Jo Cox? or the recent stabbing of a Polish person by a gang of white nationalist teens?

come on, selective memory isn't going to work for you here

I was referencing Jo Cox as the one killing. And excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the polish person white? And the story of it being nationalist has been discredited.

Reply 42

alevelstresss

Original post by lawlieto

No, the world hasn't changed, people are still stupid, the same stupid, we have wars for nearly the same reasons. The only thing that changed is that now we have devastating guns/bombs etc which make mass killings easier.

If you cant compare wars from 1939 to 2016, why are you doing so?
I guess both parties are guilty and after all these terror attacks the world had it coming that white nationalism will resurface. 1 million immigrants came including from countries where ISIS reigns. Don't tell me, that ONE million people came in, a lot of them without passports, and that none of them supports ISIS's ideologies? That's statistically impossible.

You misread my post, sigh

You cannot say that a war from 1500, being compared to the world situation in 2016, is equivalent to comparing 1939 to 2016.

The world has changed massively between 1500 and 2016, but not so much between 1939 and 2016. So your comparison/derailment is unrepresentative.

Reply 43

alevelstresss

Original post by Observatory

I'm not a socialist, and it isn't a murderous ideology. Grow up

Reply 44

alevelstresss

Original post by richpanda

I was referencing Jo Cox as the one killing. And excuse me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the polish person white? And the story of it being nationalist has been discredited.

white nationalism is anti-immigrant, regardless of skin colour, but you know what I mean buddy, don't try to spin this

we've had more white nationalist murders in Britain than any actual successful ISIS terror attacks in this country in recent years.

Reply 45

biglad2k16

Original post by alevelstresss

Exactly, you DON'T KNOW. So don't talk nonsense please.

I've studied every single individual case of western Muslims becoming radicalised and committing attacks. Every single time their lives go south because of some traumatic event in their life, such as being put in prison, losing family members, having their home country go to war, etc...

Being put in prison is kind of their own fault. I've lost a family member and so have many other people but they're not joining terrorist groups. My home country went to war but I'm still here not being a terrorist.

Reply 46

Observatory

Original post by alevelstresss

I'm not a socialist, and it isn't a murderous ideology. Grow up

You have spent a long time talking about Hitler and how he means it is imperative to reject even sensible right-wing policies.

If that is the case, sensible left-wing policies must be unquestionably bad because of Stalin and Mao.

Reply 47

joddcfc

Original post by alevelstresss

I think they're a bigger threat because they live in mass in our own country, rather than being isolated and scattered just like Islamist extremists are.

but go ahead and call me delusional if it seems to reinforce your point

Yes they outnumber terrorists in our country but white nationalists are capable of racist speech and maybe the occasional physical attack; terrorists are capable of another 7/7.

Reply 48

Oschene23

Original post by alevelstresss

So do you think that the average Muslim just wakes up one day and decided to join ISIS?
You've completely neglected causality, one cause for joining ISIS is hateful sentiment, hateful sentiment can derive from being alienated and discriminated against.

Here's an Islamist symphasiser...

It's actually hilarious your starting an argument on a student forum in the UK, just so you can try and defend the Islamic State & their actions & deflecting the blame onto some low level white nationalist fervour.

They'd probably chop off your head or rape you (if you're female) for embracing western culture mate, so please don't be so naive.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 49

Observatory

Original post by alevelstresss

white nationalism is anti-immigrant, regardless of skin colour
No it isn't. You are conflating everything you don't like into one ideology.

Here is what Oswald Moseley spent his time doing after the war:

I am neither a pan-European nor a White nationalist, but it is still obvious to me that both pan-Europeans and White nationalists are far less my enemy than Muslims.

Reply 50

Francis Urquhart

In reality we need to find out why these said groups are growing, and what is causing such whole-scale growth which has never quite been seen before across the continent.

I for one feel it is a mixture of the Euro-crisis and the migrant-crisis (falsely labelled refugee crisis for far too long by a British media eager to win back the hearts and minds of the British people after the telephone scandal. This blatant misinformation led to lots of ill-will from those who actually understood refugee legislation and the said requirements to be a refugee. A good example is the Calais migrant camp, nobody there can be laballed a 'refugee.' In fact it is a French governmental failure to look after those children that have no parents, yet it is the left-wing British media that is obsessed with the story. Me and many of my friends (on both sides of the political spectrum) were increasingly concerned that the media had forgotten about the 'real' refugees, the ones stuck in Jordan, or still in Syrian danger-zones, but it was more convinient logisitcally and emotionally to report the stories closer to home; and that's exactly what our media did.

Most worrying of all; I've never before seen a population so eager to gobble it all up and absorb all the misinformation without actually going further into it.

Now for my OBJECTIVE stance: (Hate that word! Nobody is truly objective, and anyone who keeps reminding you that they are 'objective' are some of the least objective people you will ever meet.)

In the eyes of many Merkel is the unofficial spokesperson of the EU, so here allowance of second and third waves of mass-migration into her nation without reading the mood of the German public was a big error in the eyes of many. And it could be argued that her attempt to give Germany a new personality after all of the self-flagellation since WW2 has instead led to an increasingly exponential rise in the far-right movements. The election that is happening in Germany soon will be a good indicator to see where the public is with her.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37269330

Might i also say i think we're debating the wrong issue about far-right and far-left groups being dangerous. Both of them are super-dangerous. Many people forget that Hitler's party was actually a far-left group. But it became so authoritarian that it basically crossed the 'horse-shoe' political synapse and landed on the far-right side.

An example of 'white' terror so to speak would be Anders Behring Brevik, all you need is one-man committeed to his cause to carry out horrific atrocities. And make no mistsake over ISIS as well, just because it's shrinking right now does not mean it will be irradicated. We may very well just end up turning ISIS into another Al Queda; a stateless entity that operates based on terror cells universally; similar to what they did for their attacks on France.

I could also go-on about the failure to integrate the said communities, but that would make my post far too long. So i might go into it in a later post, as it would likely be far more argumentative than this one.

Best regards
Apologies for any spelling errors or format errors, i have not had time-to double check all of the spelling. But i hope you find my that my post contributes towards the said discussion.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 51

richpanda

Original post by alevelstresss

In that case you would call it nationalism, as calling it 'white nationalism' would imply to be against immigrants you must be white. This is clearly untrue, as a majority of British born people of asian descent voted 'out' in the EU referendum.

How about the 30 Brits murdered on the beach in Tunisia 2 years ago? Did that slip your mind?

Reply 52

lawlieto

Original post by alevelstresss

I think the world has changed an awful lot after the 2nd world war. Or why do you think it hasn't changed that much? It's not really about the amount of time elapsed, but about the things that happened.

Either way, most of us are biased, based on where we're coming from how we grew up, but as I said, we had it coming after the attacks.

Reply 53

Trapz99

Original post by alevelstresss

Where is your source for this?

Reply 54

1010marina

Original post by alevelstresss

When white nationalist groups have a higher recent (~5 years or so) death toll than terrorists like ISIS, I'll start taking your fears seriously.

Are you one of these people that believes ISIS are misunderstood goat herders that we should import over for the cultural enrichment?

Reply 55

JoshDawg

These nationalist movements only grow when the people of a country feel they aren't being listened to, and it's not surprising that they will be growing in Germany and Sweden, the two countries that are getting buttraped (literally) by migrants. Not enough men are standing up in Sweden because their feminists have successfully castrated them and even claim that if they're getting raped by a migrant, they don't want an oppressive white man to help them.

German police are too busy covering up migrant crime than doing anything about it anyway.

Reply 56

Dom2375

Original post by Observatory

White nationalists, unlike the current establishment, might be able to fight ISIS effectively.

How? By sharing Britain First posts on facebook? :h:

Reply 57

Rakas21

Original post by Dom2375

How? By sharing Britain First posts on facebook? :h:

He's talking about in government.

Reply 58

CJTWhite

Original post by Observatory

White nationalists, unlike the current establishment, might be able to fight ISIS effectively.

Original post by Rakas21

But diversity is good remember, it's bad to import white Christians/atheists who are probably more skilled, wealthy and educated.

Original post by biglad2k16

The thing with white nationalists is that most of them are just people proud of being white and of their heritage. They haven't carried out many terror attacks like ISIS has and the vast majority of people would say that ISIS is he bigger threat.