The pressure for masculinity is harder than for femininity
The pressure for men to be masculine is, I think, far more burdensome, difficult and stressful than the pressure for women to be feminine.
1. Toughness vs Fragility
Being tough requires having courage and overcoming fear. Being fragile allows you to avoid facing fear. Would you rather have to pluck up the courage and risk danger to stave off a burglar or go to war or get in a fight or would you rather be scared and fragile and be accepted and protected in return?
2. Muscular vs Slim
Being tall and muscular requires genetic luck for height and the difficult task of building muscle while maintaining a six pack. Being short as a man is terrible from birth with no silver lining. As for women, being smaller than men and slim requires genetic luck again for height - but if you are tall your long legs are praised and/or it is not as stigmatised anywhere near the extent. Would you rather have to try and build muscle through a time-consuming and expensive process as well as do cardio to stay lean for a six-pack or simply do cardio and spend less money on food to lose fat? Women are born regular sized and may over-eat and then need to lose fat. Men are born regular sized but have to build muscle if they want any respect and to be attractive. From birth we are at a disadvantage.
3. Boyfriend vs Girlfriend
Would you rather have to pursue a love interest, be the one to ask them out, fight off competition, risk your reputation and put your dignity on the line, deal with rejection and be savagely disrespected for being a virgin or sit back and wait for men to approach you, deal with far less rejection, and be even more attractive for your virginity? Which sounds more difficult?
4. Practical vs Impractical
Men, due to the pressure of toughness and physical ability, are expected to jump start cars, mow the lawn, drive well, do DIY, etc. If you cannot do these things, your very masculinity is questioned, however irrational this is, we are simply forced to accept it. On top of this we are expected to share the cleaning and housework which is all women help with. As soon as something is in the realm of practical/physical, it is the man's job. As someone who has just bought my first car at 23 years-old and hasn't driven since passing my test 6 years ago, this has been particularly interesting to observe. The constant passive-aggressive questioning of my manhood for not yet being an expert parker after 1 week of driving or not knowing the ins-and-outs of how the engine works or not being comfortable driving a large van, etc. is curious to say the least - and the biggest culprits of this sexism? Women of course.
5. Careers
If a woman pursues a typically masculine job she is praised for her independence, strength and courage. If a man pursues a typically feminine job he is demonised by his peers and unattractive to women who hold masculinity high in their ranking of turn-ons. If a man becomes a house-husband and/or is unemployed, he is weak, unreliable, feminine and pathetic. If a woman becomes a house-wife and/or is unemployed, she is fairly accepted. She has the choice for either a successful career or staying at home. Men have no such choice - the pressure is relentless.
Thoughts and rebuttals welcome. Rational arguments only. Please ensure you stick to the issue of the pressure to be masculine/feminine.
1. Toughness vs Fragility
Being tough requires having courage and overcoming fear. Being fragile allows you to avoid facing fear. Would you rather have to pluck up the courage and risk danger to stave off a burglar or go to war or get in a fight or would you rather be scared and fragile and be accepted and protected in return?
2. Muscular vs Slim
Being tall and muscular requires genetic luck for height and the difficult task of building muscle while maintaining a six pack. Being short as a man is terrible from birth with no silver lining. As for women, being smaller than men and slim requires genetic luck again for height - but if you are tall your long legs are praised and/or it is not as stigmatised anywhere near the extent. Would you rather have to try and build muscle through a time-consuming and expensive process as well as do cardio to stay lean for a six-pack or simply do cardio and spend less money on food to lose fat? Women are born regular sized and may over-eat and then need to lose fat. Men are born regular sized but have to build muscle if they want any respect and to be attractive. From birth we are at a disadvantage.
3. Boyfriend vs Girlfriend
Would you rather have to pursue a love interest, be the one to ask them out, fight off competition, risk your reputation and put your dignity on the line, deal with rejection and be savagely disrespected for being a virgin or sit back and wait for men to approach you, deal with far less rejection, and be even more attractive for your virginity? Which sounds more difficult?
4. Practical vs Impractical
Men, due to the pressure of toughness and physical ability, are expected to jump start cars, mow the lawn, drive well, do DIY, etc. If you cannot do these things, your very masculinity is questioned, however irrational this is, we are simply forced to accept it. On top of this we are expected to share the cleaning and housework which is all women help with. As soon as something is in the realm of practical/physical, it is the man's job. As someone who has just bought my first car at 23 years-old and hasn't driven since passing my test 6 years ago, this has been particularly interesting to observe. The constant passive-aggressive questioning of my manhood for not yet being an expert parker after 1 week of driving or not knowing the ins-and-outs of how the engine works or not being comfortable driving a large van, etc. is curious to say the least - and the biggest culprits of this sexism? Women of course.
5. Careers
If a woman pursues a typically masculine job she is praised for her independence, strength and courage. If a man pursues a typically feminine job he is demonised by his peers and unattractive to women who hold masculinity high in their ranking of turn-ons. If a man becomes a house-husband and/or is unemployed, he is weak, unreliable, feminine and pathetic. If a woman becomes a house-wife and/or is unemployed, she is fairly accepted. She has the choice for either a successful career or staying at home. Men have no such choice - the pressure is relentless.
Thoughts and rebuttals welcome. Rational arguments only. Please ensure you stick to the issue of the pressure to be masculine/feminine.
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I can see difficulties living up to high standards in both genders.( yes, I went there).
It's a case of being easy or successful, depending on your perspective. If you prefer an easy life, then yeah it's easier to succumb to the pressures of 'femininity'. But if you prefer a more successful life, it's easier for a man.
Also, women don't just have pressures to be slim. They have pressures to be slim, and have big arse and tits. Which for some is impossible to achieve without going under the knife...
Also, women don't just have pressures to be slim. They have pressures to be slim, and have big arse and tits. Which for some is impossible to achieve without going under the knife...
Would say this is all spot on but there are unrealistic societal standards for both genders (and people who don't fit into either gender perfectly).
I know way too many girls who have become anorexic or bulimic because of fear for how they look, that they're not 'slim and pretty' enough - mind, they were already slim and pretty.
Girls in office situations get chastised as 'bossy', or 'not being a team player' or being a 'b*tch' if they have an opinion contrary to the consensus. Or even if they want to speak up, they can't because the men brush off whatever is said.
Girls are at risk (largely due to this fragility nonsense) of being raped or assaulted at a much higher rate than men are, and I don't know about you, but rape and assault are bloody terrifying.
Basically with your 'easier to live up to' argument comes a very dark and sinister side of also being an easier target to take advantage of.
So yeah, guys have it hard and girls have it hard. Moral of the story is, we need to breakdown these ridiculous caricatures for either gender and embrace the fact that we're different but equals.
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I know way too many girls who have become anorexic or bulimic because of fear for how they look, that they're not 'slim and pretty' enough - mind, they were already slim and pretty.
Girls in office situations get chastised as 'bossy', or 'not being a team player' or being a 'b*tch' if they have an opinion contrary to the consensus. Or even if they want to speak up, they can't because the men brush off whatever is said.
Girls are at risk (largely due to this fragility nonsense) of being raped or assaulted at a much higher rate than men are, and I don't know about you, but rape and assault are bloody terrifying.
Basically with your 'easier to live up to' argument comes a very dark and sinister side of also being an easier target to take advantage of.
So yeah, guys have it hard and girls have it hard. Moral of the story is, we need to breakdown these ridiculous caricatures for either gender and embrace the fact that we're different but equals.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I think most of it comes naturally, first I think it's important to remember the benefits we gain from working out becuase men are often short tempered especially at this age thanks to hormones and stress and most men find comfort in going to the gym so we actually turn a fragility into toughness. Men are tough, we all like to seem tough at first sight but I'm sure a lot of us are more fragile on the inside than people realise, it's just unmanly to comminuicate that across like women do, plus when women do it they seem to feel better, when I talk about personal or emotional stuff I feel quite weak and vulnerable which is kind of against my nature (nothing wrong with it, I just personally don't like it). So really it's all part of our nature, you don't have to be perfect and that's the best part about being a man, women often talk about pressures to be perfect although I'm not sure if it's from within or if it's from us men? But the other parts I completely agree with especially careers.
Original post by Princepieman
Would say this is all spot on but there are unrealistic societal standards for both genders (and people who don't fit into either gender perfectly).
I know way too many girls who have become anorexic or bulimic because of fear for how they look, that they're not 'slim and pretty' enough - mind, they were already slim and pretty.
Girls in office situations get chastised as 'bossy', or 'not being a team player' or being a 'b*tch' if they have an opinion contrary to the consensus. Or even if they want to speak up, they can't because the men brush off whatever is said.
Girls are at risk (largely due to this fragility nonsense) of being raped or assaulted at a much higher rate than men are, and I don't know about you, but rape and assault are bloody terrifying.
Basically with your 'easier to live up to' argument comes a very dark and sinister side of also being an easier target to take advantage of.
So yeah, guys have it hard and girls have it hard. Moral of the story is, we need to breakdown these ridiculous caricatures for either gender and embrace the fact that we're different but equals.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I know way too many girls who have become anorexic or bulimic because of fear for how they look, that they're not 'slim and pretty' enough - mind, they were already slim and pretty.
Girls in office situations get chastised as 'bossy', or 'not being a team player' or being a 'b*tch' if they have an opinion contrary to the consensus. Or even if they want to speak up, they can't because the men brush off whatever is said.
Girls are at risk (largely due to this fragility nonsense) of being raped or assaulted at a much higher rate than men are, and I don't know about you, but rape and assault are bloody terrifying.
Basically with your 'easier to live up to' argument comes a very dark and sinister side of also being an easier target to take advantage of.
So yeah, guys have it hard and girls have it hard. Moral of the story is, we need to breakdown these ridiculous caricatures for either gender and embrace the fact that we're different but equals.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I'm pretty sure that men are in fact more likely to be assaulted.
Original post by Ano9901whichone
I'm pretty sure that men are in fact more likely to be assaulted.
Sexually? Because of their gender?
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you know what I hands down completely agree with everything on this, I think its true we have it easier and it must reallllyyy suck being a guy whos not naturally tall/muscular/confident/easy to get laid/respected. Don't know how many other girls who will agree with this but I think it'll be unfair for someone to not agree on any of your points.
Original post by Princepieman
Girls are at risk (largely due to this fragility nonsense) of being raped or assaulted at a much higher rate than men are, and I don't know about you, but rape and assault are bloody terrifying.
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In the US more men are raped than women if you include prison rapes.
I agree with OP, it's much harder to be a man in the west these days thanks to feminism. If you're a straight white male you're the scum of the earth apparently. A woman lives as a man for 18 months and witnesses just how hard it is. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ2fREo3Tjc
(edited 7 years ago)
???????
Prison rape is completely different, the environment in prison is completely different to being out in the open.. And it's a forced unisex arrangement.
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Original post by Princepieman
???????
Prison rape is completely different, the environment in prison is completely different to being out in the open.. And it's a forced unisex arrangement.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Prison rape is completely different, the environment in prison is completely different to being out in the open.. And it's a forced unisex arrangement.
Posted from TSR Mobile
You're more likely to get justice (+ sympathy and services dedicating to helping you) if you're raped in the outside world. If you live in prison you'll see your rapist on a daily basis and have a constant reminder of what happened. And even if you do speak up...you'll probably end up in solitary confinement for your own protection. Are you going to deny that prison rape is worse psychologically?
(edited 7 years ago)
I am naturally tough and tall and I've worked years at the gym to be muscular and athletic, so I'm quite happy with myself and I feel no stress with these 'pressures'. They don't come as pressures to me because my testosterone makes me tough and male already; I have a natural drive to be tough, decision-making, striving,territorial and sex-seeking. I also have no problem with DIY, driving well, etc. It's nothing new if you ask me - it all feels quite natural.
Original post by L'absurde
You're more likely to get justice (+ sympathy and services dedicating to helping you) if you're raped in the outside world. If you live in prison you'll see your rapist on a daily basis and have a constant reminder of what happened. And even if you do speak up...you'll probably end up in solitary confinement for your own protection. Are you going to deny that prison rape isn't worse psychologically?
Didn't say anything about psychology. At the end of the day, a prison is a collective of criminals who are serving terms for crimes they've comitted - it is therefore not surprising that a prisoner (surrounded by equally as deviant, or even more so deviant prisoners) will have greater exposure to aggression. Justice as you put it is being served by being in prison in the first place.
Out in the open? You know in a civilised society? That's just unacceptable I'm afraid, we have rules by which people should abide by.
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Original post by 571122
I am naturally tough and tall and I've worked years at the gym to be muscular and athletic, so I'm quite happy with myself and I feel no stress with these 'pressures'. They don't come as pressures to me because my testosterone makes me tough and male already; I have a natural drive to be tough, decision-making, striving,territorial and sex-seeking. I also have no problem with DIY, driving well, etc. It's nothing new if you ask me - it all feels quite natural.
Congrats on winning the gene lottery
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Original post by Princepieman
Thanks bro.
Original post by Princepieman
Didn't say anything about psychology. At the end of the day, a prison is a collective of criminals who are serving terms for crimes they've comitted - it is therefore not surprising that a prisoner (surrounded by equally as deviant, or even more so deviant prisoners) will have greater exposure to aggression. Justice as you put it is being served by being in prison in the first place.
Out in the open? You know in a civilised society? That's just unacceptable I'm afraid, we have rules by which people should abide by.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Out in the open? You know in a civilised society? That's just unacceptable I'm afraid, we have rules by which people should abide by.
Posted from TSR Mobile
You do realise that in America most of these people are in prison for drug-related crimes and not violent crimes as you may well think...They're not all murderers, rapists and alike. But I see what you mean, they will be surrounded by more violent people then there are on the outside.
Of course it's unacceptable. Which is why there is a justice system that penalises rape, unless you're in prison.
Original post by L'absurde
You're more likely to get justice (+ sympathy and services dedicating to helping you) if you're raped in the outside world. If you live in prison you'll see your rapist on a daily basis and have a constant reminder of what happened. And even if you do speak up...you'll probably end up in solitary confinement for your own protection. Are you going to deny that prison rape is worse psychologically?
But you can avoid prison??? I understand that men do get raped and I support them as much as female victims but for most men rape isn't an issue (unless they're the perpetrators) for some women the threat of rape follows them around all the time. We are told not to walk home at night, not to get too drunk, not to get in unlicensed cabs, etc etc.
Original post by epage
But you can avoid prison??? I understand that men do get raped and I support them as much as female victims but for most men rape isn't an issue (unless they're the perpetrators) for some women the threat of rape follows them around all the time. We are told not to walk home at night, not to get too drunk, not to get in unlicensed cabs, etc etc.
Hmmm...you can to some degree. Children get raped too btw. But I see where you are coming from. I was just pointing out that in the US the no. of men raped in prisons is much higher than the total number of rapes outside prison.
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