is it only me or has religion ruined the world?.

I would think it requires wage war disbelief coupled with some form of treason (blocking roads, spreading fear).

You are entirely free to interpret the interpretation of the Quran in any way you choose. Seems a bit odd though, considering I am always being told that I must defer to authentic and qualified scholars and not interpret things myself. I guess this only applies to critics and not apologists?

Correct, it does. So we are in no doubt that opposition with be dealt with brutally.
But this does not contradict the stuff about disobeying god's law, etc.

Because the Quran and sunnah repeatedly state that those who submit to Islam will be spared, and that includes dhimmis.

spreading fear in the fairways

Yh I sort of agree but does anyone else wonder if there was no such thing as religion would we have morals to begin with ? I've left Islam not that long ago and this has been on my mind for a while.


Posted from TSR Mobile

No religion hasn't ruined the world. People ruin the world.

and if it is true that morals come from religion, then that hugely contradicts your view of religion ruining the world.

Religion is like anything else, it can be blamed for the poor, evil, cruel actions of other humans but you can't forget there are wonderful people who wouldn't hurt a fly that follow the same religion, therefore you cannot blame religion for ruining the world.

Humans can be cruel.

I'd argue modern religion pretty much saved civilisation and made it what it is.

After the fall of the Roman Empire, we could have been in the Dark Ages for much much longer than we were - long enough to descend into a spiral of barbarity. The gaps where the Roman Empire was - the things that it filled- government, judiciary, education, law and order - these were filled by pretty much the only remaining establishment in Europe - the Catholic Church. Say what you like about it, and from a modern perspective it was a rough ride - but it got Europe through to the Renaissance period. There was no such thing as a secular science-based movement that could have stepped in. It just didn't exist, and people weren't sophisticated enough.

No organised religion - at best we'd be somewhere between the Mongols and Tudors right now.

Lots of people have died because of religion, but more people have also died because of scarcity of resources and crazy political leaders.

So removing religion doesn't equal a perfect world, look at the Soviet Union for example Stalin was atheist and supressed religion.

Keep your interpretation. But just to avoid possible additional confusion in future, just quote the entire phrase: so "disbelief, blocking roads and spreading fear in the fairways".

Religion has been and continues to be the single most destructive force in the world. Imo, of course.

The Dark Ages weren't quite as dark as often made out, but there's some truth to what you say. However, it's kind of a circular thing, as Christianity was integral to the societies of medieval Europe and so locked in that it's hard to determine if they would have done better 'without it' - it's just the way it was. What does seem pretty clear is that it became a major blockage after a while. The innovation and dynamism that emerged in places like the Netherlands and in the Italian city states only really got going when they dumped or subverted Catholic centralist rule and went their own way. These places (which came eventually to include Britain) were effectively liberated from the chokehold of Catholic orthodoxy which suppressed progress in nearly all areas of human endeavour. The places which were not liberated - Spain, Southern Italy - became increasingly backwards as the centuries progressed.

The huge conquests and mass killings/enslavements/genocides of antiquity were clashes of empire, not religion. They dwarf the kind of thing we have nowadays in both scale and effect. The two mass destruction events of modern times - the world wars, didn't have a religious basis at all.

Religion seems to be at the root of the divisions which ignited certainly the 1st world war. If nothing else many wars have been caused by bickerings between the royal families of Europe who all rose to power by utilising religion as their justification. What better way to declare yourself better than someone else? Just state you were chosen by god.

I would say that is stretching an anti-religious viewpoint to its breaking point. I'm not religious at all, and I find some of the current trends insane - but I can't bring myself to blame what are obvious political conflicts on religion.

I can't see how religion played anything but the most tiny of peripheral roles in WW1. If there were a list of 25 root causes, I don't think it would be in there.

Religion seems to be at the root of the divisions which ignited certainly the 1st world war. If nothing else many wars have been caused by bickerings between the royal families of Europe who all rose to power by utilising religion as their justification. What better way to declare yourself better than someone else? Just state you were chosen by god.

And I disagree, thinking it was a primary cause of lot of the initial disagreements which escalated.

Matters not though, unfortunately we are stuck with the cancer of religion it seems

Sure. But we must understand that we have been evolutionarily designed to be violent creatures. We once were hunter-gatherers and violence is in our DNA. Religion helped us soothe this violence we unfortunately inherited. It helped many to lead controlled lives. Without religion, this world would have seen wars of greater atrocities compared to our recent violent history.