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Criticism of Islam is not a hate crime, nor racist, nor enophobic

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I criticise religions all the time, but I think there is a disproportionate amount of hate directed at Muslims. And, I find it amusing that some of this hate towards them come from 'Good Christians' who are supposed to 'Love thy neighbour'.
Original post by Vividly clear
There's a difference between people who call themselves christian who commit pedophilloic acts, and the central figure of a religion, who their god claimed is the morale example everyone should follow in Qur'an 33:21 who saw nothing wrong with having sex with a 9 year old girl.


1500 years ago. These people don't blindly follow Islam without acknowledging that it is an ancient religion.

And does that make all of the Muslims who aren't pedophiles not true Muslims?
Original post by alevelstresss
If only it were that simple little boy. He lived in a very different society to our own, long ago. Traditions were different back then, and they still are now. Its not a valid criticism to whinge about Mohammed being a pedophile when practically the whole world was more positively predisposed to that sort of stuff.


Its not a valid criticism to say that the world was different back then.The human sense of right and wrong remains pretty much the same.Most societies throughout history have prohibitions against murder or treachery or rape for example.Just because it was more common 1500 years ago doesnt mean it was ok even back then it was probably frowned upon.By your logic we shouldnt criticise the aztecs or human sacrafice because it was just their society back then.
Original post by alevelstresss
If only it were that simple little boy. He lived in a very different society to our own, long ago. Traditions were different back then, and they still are now. Its not a valid criticism to whinge about Mohammed being a pedophile when practically the whole world was more positively predisposed to that sort of stuff.


Isn't he supposed to be a timeless example of perfect morality? So context shouldn't matter if he is supposed to have received moral values directly from God, which should be applicable to all times and universal?
Original post by Iridocyclitis
Isn't he supposed to be a timeless example of perfect morality? So context shouldn't matter if he is supposed to have received moral values directly from God, which should be applicable to all times and universal?


then are all of the non-pedo muslims not true muslims? im very confused by your assessment
Original post by Robby2312
Its not a valid criticism to say that the world was different back then.The human sense of right and wrong remains pretty much the same.Most societies throughout history have prohibitions against murder or treachery or rape for example.Just because it was more common 1500 years ago doesnt mean it was ok even back then it was probably frowned upon.By your logic we shouldnt criticise the aztecs or human sacrafice because it was just their society back then.


Uhhh, yes it is. Explain why it isn't. Some vague hypothetical statement about how "right and wrong has stayed the same" when evidently this is completely untrue is not an explanation.
Original post by alevelstresss
then are all of the non-pedo muslims not true muslims? im very confused by your assessment


That's a straw man. I am asking whether his moral values are meant to be timeless or not. If he did receive them directly from God then they should be timeless (i.e., universally applicable to all times), but if he did not then you are able to apply the context argument but that would of course mean that he was not a prophet of God.
Original post by The_JoKeR
bigot, racist, xenophobic, islamophobic
Ayyy Lmao
well, don't forget : this particular thread (according to its title) should be dealing with enophobia, which is fear (or strong dislike) of wine

very common among Muslims
Original post by Iridocyclitis
That's a straw man. I am asking whether his moral values are meant to be timeless or not. If he did receive them directly from God then they should be timeless (i.e., universally applicable to all times), but if he did not then you are able to apply the context argument but that would of course mean that he was not a prophet of God.


1.6 billion Muslims worldwide evidently aren't pedophiles

Mohammed is the timeless 'perfect' human, in their eyes (according to you)

so why aren't they all mimicking his behaviour?

please tell me because I don't understand, all I'm hearing is "straw man"
Original post by alevelstresss
Uhhh, yes it is. Explain why it isn't. Some vague hypothetical statement about how "right and wrong has stayed the same" when evidently this is completely untrue is not an explanation.


Because muhhamed is supposed to be a perfect example for all muslims to follow.Its like if jesus had married a 6 year old then you wouldnt be saying he was perfect.Right and wrong has stayed the same pretty much.Its not untrue. Our conscience hasnt changed.Even back then we knew it was wrong to cause pain to a human.Heck even the ten commandments back up this concept.Jesus said love your neighbour and love god.This proves that even back then they knew the difference between right and wrong.You might argue about slavery.But for slavery to be abolished there must have been a strong movement against it.Probably similar to animal rights today.
Original post by alevelstresss
1.6 billion Muslims worldwide evidently aren't pedophiles

Mohammed is the timeless 'perfect' human, in their eyes (according to you)

so why aren't they all mimicking his behaviour?

please tell me because I don't understand, all I'm hearing is "straw man"


As far as I am aware, Muslims do not have to replicate every single action Muhammad did, such bathing in the same way he did. If you believe his morality is timeless and received directly from God, then it would however suggest that you believe all of his acts were morally correct. That's just logic.

So the issue is approval of an act (most likely indirect) rather than replication of it.
(edited 7 years ago)
Islamophobia is a real problem but I think we all still hold the right to criticize religions when we research and knowledge to back up our claims.
Original post by alevelstresss
1.6 billion Muslims worldwide evidently aren't pedophiles

True, but that doesn't mean child marriage (which can help to facilitate paedophilia) is permitted in Islam and not surprisingly featured in a number of Muslim majority states

Mohammed is the timeless 'perfect' human, in their eyes (according to you)


Are you saying that the vast majority of Muslims do not view Muhammad as an exemplary role model?

so why aren't they all mimicking his behaviour?


I'm pretty sure many are mimicking his behavior (trying their best) to follow his ways, both in beliefs and actions.
Original post by Emperor Trajan
True, but that doesn't mean child marriage (which can help to facilitate paedophilia) is permitted in Islam and not surprisingly featured in a number of Muslim majority states



Are you saying that the vast majority of Muslims do not view Muhammad as an exemplary role model?



I'm pretty sure many are mimicking his behavior (trying their best) to follow his ways, both in beliefs and actions.


A pointless reply, you are ignoring the fact that despite Mohammed being 'perfect', people do not follow his behaviour in this regard. So there is an obvious flaw in the criticism of Mohammed being a pedophile.
Original post by busybee8
Islamophobia is a real problem but I think we all still hold the right to criticize religions when we research and knowledge to back up our claims.
The problem is not hostility against Islam (which is perfectly justified) but hostility against Muslims in general

many aspects of islam are incompatible with our model of society. We are perfectly correct in criticising them, and in defending our model

by the way, hostility against the "kuffar" is quite common among the non-kuffar (also called Muslims) : is kuffarophobia justified ?
Original post by EastGuava
Yeah, that's not criticism, it's mocking Islam. What's wrong with mocking a belief, other than some people ending up thinking they have been personally insulted?


the thing you are apparently ruling out is exactly the problem with it
Original post by Iridocyclitis
As far as I am aware, Muslims do not have to replicate every single action Muhammad did, such bathing in the same way he did. If you believe his morality is timeless and received directly from God, then it would however suggest that you believe all of his acts were morally correct. That's just logic.

So the issue is approval of an act (most likely indirect) rather than replication of it.


Right, so we have Mohammed being a pedophile, and you've finally admitted that Muslims aren't replicating his actions.

So what's the bloody problem?
Original post by alevelstresss
Right, so we have Mohammed being a pedophile, and you've finally admitted that Muslims aren't replicating his actions.

So what's the bloody problem?


I just wanted to rebut your flawed "context" argument. :smile:
Original post by Iridocyclitis
I just wanted to rebut your flawed "context" argument. :smile:


don't waste my time with your petty needs to attack me in future, I want a sensible debate about Islam
Original post by alevelstresss
don't waste my time with your petty needs to attack my flawed arguments in future, I want a sensible debate about Islam


Fixed above.

And noted.

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