British lad to be extradited to US for hacking, this is so wrong!

Scroll to see replies

So you guys against him being extradited are saying that if an American in America hacked into MI5, the British military defense network, and into the national treasury or whatever it's called here, you'd want the American government to punish him even though he committed crimes against England? Stop lying y'all. He basically launched a cyber attack against the US and they have every right to prosecute him for it

Reply 21

Whomp

The thing I think is most disgusting is that the US want to sentence him for

Up to 99 years in prison

The thing that appals me is that the maximum penalty in the UK is 2 year 8 months for the sum of the crimes he has committed, yet he will be tried under another countries law. This is just completely unfair on him. And the fact that Americans are about as accepting of people with mental health issues as we were in the middle ages does not help the case one bit. If we lose him to the yanks I doubt he will last a year.
Now people have been saying 'if he was a paedophile you wouldn't be against it' but that is completely different. It would be true if you say that the maximum time of imprisonment for a paedophile in the UK was 2 years whereas in the US it was life, but it's not.
And the other problem is this is just another way of the US flexing their muscles and making an example out of an innocent guy, I mean yes what he did was wrong, but he didn't actually use this, he didn't extort it, he just entered their system, yes he got thousands of people's details but he didn't distribute them.
And again on my point is it really fair to judge someone by a different law to the ones they have been abiding? It'd be like the British police trying to arrest a yank for arms dealing of pistols etc. but of course in that state because it's great 'Murica and it's a 'great' nation we would have no power to have one of their citizens tried for something that is legal in their country.

Reply 22

Reue

Original post by alexschmalex

Yes. Being the victim does not give you the right to decide the punishment.

Reply 23

L i b

Original post by Ambitious1999

My main point is why are Our courts complying with the US and detaining this lad so he can be taken away from his own home country for upto 100 years in prison.

The United States has an extradition treaty with the United Kingdom. The British courts are rightly trying to comply with British law here. The penalty for committing an offence in the United States is a question for the US courts.

The lad has mental health issues, how is he expected to cope in a US prison with all their gangs and violence?

I think you've been watching too many prison dramas.

Original post by JamesN88

99 years in jail for a non-violent offence by someone with aspergers is absurd though IMO.

Which is why he would unquestionably not get the maximum penalty. This is why we have courts: to decide on the relative and proportionate penalty for a criminal offence.

In theory, a Magistrates' Court in England can fine you every single penny you own and imprison you for six months for the unauthorised sale of football tickets. Of course, that has never, ever happened.

Original post by Hydeman

A more reasonable objection to this would be that we have yet to receive any guarantee that U.S. prosecutors will not seek the death penalty, which would arguably make the extradition unlawful under the European Convention on Human Rights.

I doubt that's a serious proposition.

Original post by mojojojo101

As a rule I think that people sh should be serving jail time in the country in which they commited a crime. This guy didnt break any law in the UK so he should not be in a British jail.

I appreciate there's some subtly here when someone can be charged with an offence that they have committed remotely in a country they've never even visited. There's something vaguely silly about that, and when we're talking electronics it may not even be entirely clear in all circumstances in which country a crime is being committed.

Doesn't really apply in this case, though, but a wider concern.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 24

Whomp

Original post by alexschmalex

Well we know for certain that the yanks would never permit us to extradite a criminal from them.
And really we probably cannot afford to hold anymore prisoners than we already have from our own country.
And you must consider this is another American attempt to maintain their status as a super power by lording it over the rest of us.
Hundreds of Americans have broken into their own security system, but they don't need to be extradited and the Yanks have total power over there so they quietly remove them in the middle of the night.. if ye get what I mean.
It is really just the yanks showing they have power over us and I say to remain independent we should tell them to F themselves, this guy didn't damage the system and didn't actually share the details of the people who's details he's alleged to have stolen, he jut exploited a well known entry point to the system, yes the yanks actually knew about the way he entered and still haven't secured it, sounds kinda stupid doesn't it?

Reply 25

JamesN88

@L i b

I'd still be very surprised if the sentence doesn't end up in double figures which is excessive IMO.

This other guy got 52 months which(according to RT so maybe not true :smile:

) was only 2 months of the maximum available so it makes me think they'll go to town on him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-37250907

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 26

Luke7456

The vast Majority of people who do this are going to be autistic, because you have to be a genius to pull of such a thing. Now I fully acknowledge there are genius who are not autistic, Michelangelo, Richard Dawkins and Neil deGrasse Tyson. However the fact still remains the vast majority of genius are usually autistic.

I have to be honest though and say I find it hard to have an opinion on extradition I am far to ignorant on computing and the security issues+ threats it may or may not pose to national security to have enough knowledge to make a fair judgement. I also am ignorant of the exact circumstances okay he hacked but what damage did he do or information did he retrieve, what is the potential threat posed to the United States here?

Without those facts it is difficult to make a value judgement. Though that been said an autistic individual would be eaten alive in American Prison system. There should need to be a significant case demonstrating either a serious threat to US security or Serious damage to warrant an extradition in my opinion.

I just do not know if there is.

Reply 27

Copperknickers

Original post by jamesthehustler

young...he's 31
it lucky the US aren't trying him for trason
which comes with the punishment of death he committed major scale fraud
the EU is falling apart now we've left and well the US is our ally and has more power than us so they have the command of choice

If the USA tried a British citizen for treason and the UK government agreed to extradite him, I would instantly defect to North Korea. Frankly what they are doing is not much better.

It's his own fault.

Original post by alexschmalex

its funny how brits know more about american institutions than british institutions

also shout out to the "y'all"

Reply 30

InnerTemple

I don't see what's wrong with this whatsoever.

Reply 31

AlexanderHam

Original post by Ambitious1999

This is Britain, our country and our government and the EU should not be allowing this to happen. He is not American so what right do US agents have to take him from England?

They are not "taking him from England", the United Kingdom would be transferring him to US custody, pursuant to a lawfully-contracted extradition treaty between the two sovereign states. If you commit a crime in another country, that country has the right to seek your extradition to stand trial.

He has committed a serious crime which occurred in the United States, against the United States, for which the US Attorney has made a legitimate decision to prosecute him. They then use the tools that are available to them, the extradition treaty, to bring him into American custody so the charge can be put before a court and he can have every opportunity to defend himself.

He is not being automatically found guilty, he will go before the US federal court and there will be a jury. If there are irregularities he will be able to appeal to the US Court of Appeals circuit.

All things considered, I cannot see that there is a legitimate objection here. He has Aspergers Syndrome which is often less debilitating condition than full-blown autism. People with Aspergers can be capable of understanding the law, Mr Love appears from the press conference outside the Westminster Magristrates to be fully cognisant of the crimes with which he is charged, the operation of the court system and how proceedings in the court will affect him personally.I would be surprised if it was determined he lacked a similar understanding of the illegality of the hacks he undertook against US government servers. He had no legitimate reason to undertake this penetration into US government servers, in fact pictures of him at home show he has a Jolly Roger flag in his room and so it is apparent that he has a degree of awareness of the interaction between hacking, society and the relationship between hackers themselves, which again would undermine a claim that he lacked the capacity to understand what he was doing.

There was an Asperger-affected hacker called Gary McKinnon (apparently much more affected than Mr Love though) who the US requested extradition. In the end Theresa May, in her capacity as Home Secretary, concluded it would be contrary to his human rights and declined to permit the extradition The accused in this case will also have the benefit and safeguard of his case going before the Home Secretary and she will have to make a determination of whether to extradite him, and that decision must be made in full cognisance of his rights under the Human Rights Act.

All in all, your post is based on pure emotion but I can see no valid objection

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 32

nawedxperia

Pablo Escobar fought against extradition, you should be charged in the country where you commited the crime

Reply 33

JamesN88

Original post by Copperknickers

If the USA tried a British citizen for treason and the UK government agreed to extradite him, I would instantly defect to North Korea. Frankly what they are doing is not much better.

They won't extradite for capital offences without a guarantee that the death sentence won't be used. A UK citizen couldn't commit treason against the US anyway unless they're a dual national.

Reply 34

JamesN88

Original post by nawedxperia

Pablo Escobar fought against extradition, you should be charged in the country where you commited the crime

Been watching Narcos? :smile:

Reply 35

AlexanderHam

Original post by Plagioclase

It's nothing short of an absolute disgrace. The US has been embarrassed because of their shameful security and this is their pitiful way of trying to get revenge.

What a superficial, petty and spiteful mindset you have. He has committed a serious offence under American law. As a hacker he would have been well aware of the harshness of the American justice system and the length of their prison sentences.

The US Attorney, which is the prosecutor for federal crimes, would have the facts of this case placed for them. If on the preponderance of the evidence it appeared he had committed the crime then they would have an obligation to press charges. Failure to do so would constitute a misfeasance, or even malfeasance, of public office. He broke the criminal law of the United States, the US Attorney's job is to prosecute breaches of the criminal law of the United States.

It really is quite remarkable how many hackers, hard leftists and conspiracy theorists seem to believe that hackers should be above the law and that it is somehow unjust to apply the law to them when they commit crimes.

Reply 36

Copperknickers

Original post by JamesN88

They won't extradite for capital offences without a guarantee that the death sentence won't be used. A UK citizen couldn't commit treason against the US anyway unless they're a dual national.

That was exactly my point. If a British citizen could be tried for treason in the US then we'd be a de facto US protectorate, conquered by our own former colony. Anyhow, if we don't extradite for capital offences because it's a human rights issue, why should we extradite this guy? He has severe mental health issues as well as Asperger's syndrome, he's not just some random criminal. He will not survive the stress of being flown out to another country and subjected to the highly sub-standard mental health provisions of the US penal system, it's basically a death sentence and certainly a major breach of his human rights. We don't treat serial killers in this country as badly as some American prisons treat 1st time drug possession offenders with mental health problems.

Reply 37

username2763536

Personally I would reward him.If you have the skill to hack into the Us goverment computers then you're clearly exceptionally talented.Such talent would be much better use with our intelligence agencies than rotting away in a US prison for a century.

Reply 38

Cain Tesfaye

Original post by Robby2312

Agreed, should get a pardon if he agrees to work for MI5 for the rest of his life or something.

Reply 39

L i b

Original post by Copperknickers

If the USA tried a British citizen for treason and the UK government agreed to extradite him, I would instantly defect to North Korea. Frankly what they are doing is not much better.