Job references?
I recently lost my job because basically I could not perform the job tasks to the expected standard. Moving forward from this does my reference for any jobs I apply for have to come from this employer or can I use my next most recent employer or does it depend on the company/organisation I am applying for?
Original post by Punkgirl91
I recently lost my job because basically I could not perform the job tasks to the expected standard. Moving forward from this does my reference for any jobs I apply for have to come from this employer or can I use my next most recent employer or does it depend on the company/organisation I am applying for?
It depends on a variety of things - primarily the exact wording of the request for references. However, were you still in the probationary period of the job? How long were you working there? Does that role offer any skills you need to refer to in order to get the next job? Was there a formal disciplinary process involved?
If I were you I'd reframe the experience. You tried a new role, but mutually agreed with the employer that it wasn't for you and left after a very brief period, not worth mentioning on a CV, no new or relevant skills acquired, very short time period - forget it.
However, if it was 6 months plus, is relevant or there was a disciplinary process involved, you might have to front it out and have credible explanations for interview and trust the references if you have no option but to use them.
Original post by threeportdrift
It depends on a variety of things - primarily the exact wording of the request for references. However, were you still in the probationary period of the job? How long were you working there? Does that role offer any skills you need to refer to in order to get the next job? Was there a formal disciplinary process involved?
If I were you I'd reframe the experience. You tried a new role, but mutually agreed with the employer that it wasn't for you and left after a very brief period, not worth mentioning on a CV, no new or relevant skills acquired, very short time period - forget it.
However, if it was 6 months plus, is relevant or there was a disciplinary process involved, you might have to front it out and have credible explanations for interview and trust the references if you have no option but to use them.
If I were you I'd reframe the experience. You tried a new role, but mutually agreed with the employer that it wasn't for you and left after a very brief period, not worth mentioning on a CV, no new or relevant skills acquired, very short time period - forget it.
However, if it was 6 months plus, is relevant or there was a disciplinary process involved, you might have to front it out and have credible explanations for interview and trust the references if you have no option but to use them.
This. People take on jobs all the time that aren't right for them, it doesn't make them bad people. If you've already put it on your CV just be honest and say you didn't enjoy the job/it wasn't for you. I'm pretty sure employers can't give bad references anyway, they can refuse but not bad. If you didn't leave on bad terms maybe your boss will just provide a standard reference and highlight things you DID do well e.g. time keeping / politeness with customers etc.
Original post by Tw1x
This. People take on jobs all the time that aren't right for them, it doesn't make them bad people. If you've already put it on your CV just be honest and say you didn't enjoy the job/it wasn't for you. I'm pretty sure employers can't give bad references anyway, they can refuse but not bad. If you didn't leave on bad terms maybe your boss will just provide a standard reference and highlight things you DID do well e.g. time keeping / politeness with customers etc.
Anyone giving a reference has a legal obligation to tell the truth. As case law has shown, that means putting in 'bad' things if they are relevant. That's why whether there was a disciplinary process or not is quite important. If there was, then it would be relevant and ought to be mentioned in a reference. Similarly, if you were persistently late, rude to customers, regularly got the till wrong, didn't follow the rules and regs etc then the reference should reflect that. The only issue employers have is that they have to have evidence of those facts, and to save the paperwork, they tend to refuse to give meaningful references to anybody and just confirm the dates you worked. However, even then, they should give a reason for leaving if it was any sort of dismissal.
Original post by threeportdrift
It depends on a variety of things - primarily the exact wording of the request for references. However, were you still in the probationary period of the job? How long were you working there? Does that role offer any skills you need to refer to in order to get the next job? Was there a formal disciplinary process involved?
If I were you I'd reframe the experience. You tried a new role, but mutually agreed with the employer that it wasn't for you and left after a very brief period, not worth mentioning on a CV, no new or relevant skills acquired, very short time period - forget it.
However, if it was 6 months plus, is relevant or there was a disciplinary process involved, you might have to front it out and have credible explanations for interview and trust the references if you have no option but to use them.
If I were you I'd reframe the experience. You tried a new role, but mutually agreed with the employer that it wasn't for you and left after a very brief period, not worth mentioning on a CV, no new or relevant skills acquired, very short time period - forget it.
However, if it was 6 months plus, is relevant or there was a disciplinary process involved, you might have to front it out and have credible explanations for interview and trust the references if you have no option but to use them.
I agree
Original post by threeportdrift
Anyone giving a reference has a legal obligation to tell the truth. As case law has shown, that means putting in 'bad' things if they are relevant. That's why whether there was a disciplinary process or not is quite important. If there was, then it would be relevant and ought to be mentioned in a reference. Similarly, if you were persistently late, rude to customers, regularly got the till wrong, didn't follow the rules and regs etc then the reference should reflect that. The only issue employers have is that they have to have evidence of those facts, and to save the paperwork, they tend to refuse to give meaningful references to anybody and just confirm the dates you worked. However, even then, they should give a reason for leaving if it was any sort of dismissal.
Turns out you are correct
Can my employer give me a bad reference?
Yes and no. Many people mistakenly believe that your boss can’t give you a bad reference by law, but that’s not entirely true…
References just have to be accurate and truthful so if you were disciplined at your last job then they could include that on your reference. However, many employers are scared to give bad references because anything considered to be not 100% accurate could be grounds for legal action. If you find out that you have been unfairly given a bad reference then you could possibly sue. - http://www.totaljobs.com/careers-advice/money-and-legal/references-faq
Yes and no. Many people mistakenly believe that your boss can’t give you a bad reference by law, but that’s not entirely true…
References just have to be accurate and truthful so if you were disciplined at your last job then they could include that on your reference. However, many employers are scared to give bad references because anything considered to be not 100% accurate could be grounds for legal action. If you find out that you have been unfairly given a bad reference then you could possibly sue. - http://www.totaljobs.com/careers-advice/money-and-legal/references-faq
Though I assume OP to be new into work (16-18 year old) and unless it was something horrendous she/he did, I will assume she did something right in her role. Her employer will possibly understand it wasn't the role for her and may explain this in reference but highlight other good points. I was in a job about a year ago that I was really really crap at but I put 100% effort in and just couldn't get my head round the job. My boss admired that I stuck it out for so long before cracking, it just wasn't for me
people generally want a reference from your last employer and after that you can choose (although they can ask to contact anyone)
if you've not been in the job long it might be better to leave a blank on your CV rather than risk a bad reference/telling them you got fired... if it's a long position then perhaps talk to your old manager to see what they will say on a job application, if you parted ways amicably and didn't do anything wrong it's possible they will be happy to give a basic but not-negative reference
often employers will be careful about giving a bad reference but refusing to give a reference looks really bad and they can easily do that... they can also say anything factual e.g. 'jane doe was fired for inability to do the job'
if you've not been in the job long it might be better to leave a blank on your CV rather than risk a bad reference/telling them you got fired... if it's a long position then perhaps talk to your old manager to see what they will say on a job application, if you parted ways amicably and didn't do anything wrong it's possible they will be happy to give a basic but not-negative reference
often employers will be careful about giving a bad reference but refusing to give a reference looks really bad and they can easily do that... they can also say anything factual e.g. 'jane doe was fired for inability to do the job'
Original post by doodle_333
often employers will be careful about giving a bad reference but refusing to give a reference looks really bad and they can easily do that... they can also say anything factual e.g. 'jane doe was fired for inability to do the job'
often employers will be careful about giving a bad reference but refusing to give a reference looks really bad and they can easily do that... they can also say anything factual e.g. 'jane doe was fired for inability to do the job'
Agreed. Giving a reference that has a negative slant is a dangerous place for an employer to go unless they have evidence to back up the claim i.e. minutes of disciplinary proceedings etc. Otherwise, they are risking defamation of the employee. That said, it might be that for an easy life, they simply decide to offer a reference that says no more than your job position and starting / end dates.
Interesting stuff! I didn't realise that the law could become involved in any false or unfair declaration by an ex-employer. This seems to be something of a minefield!
Original post by Tw1x
Turns out you are correct
Though I assume OP to be new into work (16-18 year old) and unless it was something horrendous she/he did, I will assume she did something right in her role. Her employer will possibly understand it wasn't the role for her and may explain this in reference but highlight other good points. I was in a job about a year ago that I was really really crap at but I put 100% effort in and just couldn't get my head round the job. My boss admired that I stuck it out for so long before cracking, it just wasn't for me
Though I assume OP to be new into work (16-18 year old) and unless it was something horrendous she/he did, I will assume she did something right in her role. Her employer will possibly understand it wasn't the role for her and may explain this in reference but highlight other good points. I was in a job about a year ago that I was really really crap at but I put 100% effort in and just couldn't get my head round the job. My boss admired that I stuck it out for so long before cracking, it just wasn't for me
I'm actually 25 but just not yet found the job for me! But this was similar experience to what you had as in the fact that I tried my best and stuck it out but in the end whatever the reason just wasn't for me. I did call my old boss in the end and she just said on form where I have to give a reason for leaving to put 'end of assignment' or something similar.
Original post by doodle_333
people generally want a reference from your last employer and after that you can choose (although they can ask to contact anyone)
if you've not been in the job long it might be better to leave a blank on your CV rather than risk a bad reference/telling them you got fired... if it's a long position then perhaps talk to your old manager to see what they will say on a job application, if you parted ways amicably and didn't do anything wrong it's possible they will be happy to give a basic but not-negative reference
often employers will be careful about giving a bad reference but refusing to give a reference looks really bad and they can easily do that... they can also say anything factual e.g. 'jane doe was fired for inability to do the job'
if you've not been in the job long it might be better to leave a blank on your CV rather than risk a bad reference/telling them you got fired... if it's a long position then perhaps talk to your old manager to see what they will say on a job application, if you parted ways amicably and didn't do anything wrong it's possible they will be happy to give a basic but not-negative reference
often employers will be careful about giving a bad reference but refusing to give a reference looks really bad and they can easily do that... they can also say anything factual e.g. 'jane doe was fired for inability to do the job'
Well I was only there two months but I think you do have to put it on your CV as if you get a new job then they will see it on your P45 surely? And it's kind of lying to not have it although I'd be reluctant if I got fired for actual misconduct. I spoke to my manager and she would give me a reference but only to confirm the dates I worked there not sure what she would say if they asked more questions but I don't think she'd be nasty about it.
Original post by threeportdrift
It depends on a variety of things - primarily the exact wording of the request for references. However, were you still in the probationary period of the job? How long were you working there? Does that role offer any skills you need to refer to in order to get the next job? Was there a formal disciplinary process involved?
If I were you I'd reframe the experience. You tried a new role, but mutually agreed with the employer that it wasn't for you and left after a very brief period, not worth mentioning on a CV, no new or relevant skills acquired, very short time period - forget it.
However, if it was 6 months plus, is relevant or there was a disciplinary process involved, you might have to front it out and have credible explanations for interview and trust the references if you have no option but to use them.
If I were you I'd reframe the experience. You tried a new role, but mutually agreed with the employer that it wasn't for you and left after a very brief period, not worth mentioning on a CV, no new or relevant skills acquired, very short time period - forget it.
However, if it was 6 months plus, is relevant or there was a disciplinary process involved, you might have to front it out and have credible explanations for interview and trust the references if you have no option but to use them.
I was still in the probationary period of the job. I like your reframing I might use this. I think you have to put it on your CV as people interviewing are going to ask you about your career history and then if you get a job surely they will need your P45 which will have this last employer on it? Also this would leave a gap on my CV so I think better to be upfront and have it there and explain in a diplomatic and positive fashion that it wasn't for you. I wont be going for jobs in similar roles so just got to find ways of saying why it wasn't for me without shooting myself in the foot
Original post by Punkgirl91
..................
You don't HAVE to put it on your CV, your CV is about relevant experience and skills and you have to be honest - that doesn't mean comprehensive - especially if you title your Experience section Relevant Experience. However, you are quite correct that if leaving something out creates an obvious gap, you might (but often not) get asked about it.
The P45 issue is irrelevant. Your next employer only sees the P45 after they have offered you the job, you have signed the contract and usually when you turn up on the first day in the job. The P45 only shows the sum of money you earned, not how you got it. And finally it's given to the payroll clerk, in the Finance team, and the person who interviewed you will never see it and wonder, unless you are working for a single employer who does all the jobs. The payroll person has no idea what was discussed at interview, they have no reason to flag up that you have earnings in this financial year - that's normal!
Original post by Punkgirl91
Well I was only there two months but I think you do have to put it on your CV as if you get a new job then they will see it on your P45 surely? And it's kind of lying to not have it although I'd be reluctant if I got fired for actual misconduct. I spoke to my manager and she would give me a reference but only to confirm the dates I worked there not sure what she would say if they asked more questions but I don't think she'd be nasty about it.
nah, your CV is basically an advertisement for yourself, you shouldn't lie but you only have to give the highlights
plenty of jobs don't even give a p45 anymore, I haven't had one from my last two jobs, you can get started at a new place with a different form easily (starter checklist or something)
personally I wouldn't include it, I don't think 2 months and being asked to leave is going to do you any favours regardless of the reason
This might be of help to you!
http://advice.milkround.com/what-can-i-do-i-have-no-references
http://advice.milkround.com/what-can-i-do-i-have-no-references
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