Is Islamophobia a problem in the UK?

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An issue but not a problem.

It's still quite rare albeit when it does occur it makes the headlines so somewhat over represented in the grand scheme. It should obviously be addressed though.

Reply 21

thickleftard

Original post by Dodgypirate

I'm lost for words...

Bewildered...

I await an explanation

Reply 22

Dodgypirate

Original post by thickleftard

Why? Its not too difficult to understand. If you hate a religion, you implicitly have a small degree of hand-in-hand hatred for its followers.

I don't "hate" it, I thought I made that clear.

I don't care whether there's a mosque down the road or that Muslims practice Eid or Ramadan, I just feel that a lot of the faith's writings and teachings go against my liberal way of thinking (especially in what concerns women and homosexuals). I also think that a lot of goes against scientific fact.

For instance, the other day I had this discussion with an individual on whether he thought homosexuality was nature or nurture... I provided the evidence as to why I believe homosexuality is nature, but all he could do was quote the Qu'ran and say that God (Allah) is ashamed of homosexuals.

Do you think I now hate him because he's Muslim, or because his faith is telling him a pack of lies?

And you've pretty much validated my point that "Islamophobia" is just a 21rst century buzzword to shut down any form of valid argument.

If I complain about Islam in any way - if I in any way critique it - I must have "some degree" of dislike towards the people who follow it.

I don't believe it...

Your username suits you, Leftard.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 23

thickleftard

Original post by Dodgypirate

I'm not saying you do, I was just expanding on the hypothetical situation which you first proposed on page 1.

And to me, almost every single religion, not just Islam, violates those things. I don't know why Islam alone is more worthy of contesting.

Lastly, this isn't an 'absolute' thing. You have small degrees of hatred to someone because of their beliefs, it doesn't mean you hate them entirely in an absolute manner, it simply means you have some hatred for them. Even if it is very small. You simply can't hate someone's culture without hating the individual who chooses to follow that culture to a very small extent.

Reply 24

Dodgypirate

Original post by thickleftard

Let's take another example.

I thoroughly dislike the BLM movement. Why? Because it is full of lies and seeks to do what I very much think it is against: divide. Does that mean that, to some degree, I must hate/dislike black people? :lol:

This thread is about "Islamophobia" though. I do, however, agree that almost every other religion in existance has said anti-gay and anti-woman things.

Reply 25

thickleftard

Original post by Dodgypirate

This thread is about "Islamophobia" though. I do, however, agree that almost every other religion in existance has said anti-gay and anti-woman things.

This comparison is incompatible because not every black person associates themselves with BLM, and of those who do, their history, culture, family values, etc aren't defined by it.

Every single Muslim directly associates their culture, beliefs, family values and traditions with Islam.

Reply 26

Dodgypirate

Original post by thickleftard

Both are ideologies.

Let's just agree to disagree, this isn't going anywhere.

Reply 27

thickleftard

Original post by Dodgypirate

Both are ideologies.

Let's just agree to disagree, this isn't going anywhere.

Perhaps we'll have to. But its certainly not as simple as that. BLM is entirely different to Islam.

Reply 28

Josb

Original post by thickleftard

You might not hate them as a person, but you hate their culture, history, family values, traditions and beliefs - if you hate Islam.

I hate all of that. I don't see the problem with it.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 29

thickleftard

Original post by Josb

I hate all of that. I don't see the problem with it.

There isn't much of a problem with hating these things, but when this hate perpetuates into harmful action or discrimination, it then becomes a problem.

Reply 30

Shipreck

I hate all organized religion because they are scientifically inaccurate, they give a false sense of morality, and they are the reason for the most deaths throughout history. However, I don't hate religious people.To say you hate a religion does not mean you hate the people who follow that religion. If a person attacks someone because of the actions of someone else, I would say that person is moronic.

Reply 31

username1738683

'Islamophobia' is a fancy term for the inevitable reaction to murderous acts in the UK and the world at large by people claiming their Islamism as the source for them. There is such thing as 'Westernophobia' though, millions of people believe the West is the sole source of every problem in the Middle-East, from the Israeli issue to the nearest broken-down motor by the road-side anywhere in the region and westerners are targeted for being so in many ways both there and have been all over Europe. No drone ever goes out to target someone because they are Muslim.

Reply 32

AperfectBalance

The word itself is a problem. A fear of a distructive backwards ideology that is against many western liberal values and undermines our society is reasonable. But the hatred individually is not as reasonable unless the person agrees or carrries out islamic policies. But I am not advocating violence on any side.

Waiting for this to be flagged and banned by the Sharia patrol

Reply 33

BaconandSauce

blasphemy by another name and just as asinine

society has moved on from punishing those who insult those who believe in fairy tales and superstition it's just the new arrivals haven't yet got this message so try by other means to shut the conversation down

Hatred\dislike of Islam especially as a political force is not 'irrational' just good old common sense

(edited 7 years ago)

We must remove kebab

Original post by thickleftard

Its either. And I would't class it as a fear, even though its a 'phobia', its a dislike/prejudice by definition.

There's your problem, right there.
"Dislike" and "prejudice" are two completely different concepts with different definitions.

The wording is a bit screwed up, but it still has a solid enough meaning.

So what is that "soild meaning"? Is it "prejudice against Muslims", or is it "dislike of Islam"?

Reply 36

QE2

Original post by thickleftard

Muslims follow Islam, its pretty simple. You can't hate/dislike Islam as an ideology/religion without having a small degree of dislike or hatred towards the people who follow it.

You might not hate them as a person, but you hate their culture, history, family values, traditions and beliefs - if you hate Islam.

The two come hand in hand some of the time.

The problem with this is that it assumes that all Muslims are aware of every element that makes up the ideology, and fully supports it all.
However, in reality, many Muslims are completely unaware of the true nature of Islam. They grow up on a cherry-picked, sanitised version. You only have to look at many of the discussions on here.
But if a Muslim is aware of all the unacceptable stuff, and still insists that Islam is perfect, the Quran is perfect, Muhammad was perfect, etc - then yes, I think it is reasonable to dislike that person as an individual, especially when they attempt to defend the unacceptable.

Reply 37

QE2

Original post by theonecenter

Approximately 99% of Muslims want to live peaceful lives, and have legacies that will help all local communities. We aren't what the media portrays us to be. Smh...

But a sizable minority would be happy to discriminate and punish others for their sexuality or beliefs. That's hardly "peaceful", or at least, not as I understand it.

And what does the media portray you to be? I keep hearing this accusation, but most mainstream media seems to go out of its way to portray Islam as "the Religion of Peace" and Muslims as victims of Islamophobia.

Reply 38

QE2

Original post by thickleftard

You might not hate them as a person, but you hate their culture, history, family values, traditions and beliefs - if you hate Islam.

OK, let's examine that statement. It may seem profound but it is actually a glib platitude.
First, "dislike" or "oppose" is a better term than "hate".

If a culture is determined by the ideology, then yes, I dislike and am opposed to that culture if it involves misogyny, sexual oppression, etc.
The history of Islam includes much conquest, oppression, imperialism and bloodshed. I am opposed to and dislike that.
If a family's values are based on misogyny, sexual oppression, religious intolerance, etc, then I dislike those values.
Why are gender inequality, homophobia, domestic violence and religious intolerance acceptable simply because they are a "tradition"?
If someone believes that Islam is the perfect guide for all humanity, I dislike and oppose that belief.

So, essentially, there is not a problem with disliking all those things - because they are all ideological. The thing is, there are many Muslims who don't actually subscribe to (or are even aware of) much of the ideology, so you cannot conflate all Muslims with the ideology of Islam.

Reply 39

QE2

Original post by thickleftard

There isn't much of a problem with hating these things, but when this hate perpetuates into harmful action or discrimination, it then becomes a problem.