Corbyn wins again!

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Reply 20

LifeIsFine

Original post by AlexanderHam

Of course. Bear is a Tory

I see, well I guess we have alot to celebrate about
(I'd say I identify with the left of the tory party)

Reply 21

JT_888

Corbyn may have won with a larger majority compared to the last leadership election but let's not forget that he has a lot to deliver. He needs to offer real change and live up to the straight talking, honest politics that Labour is about, not talk about deselection of candidates and release a list to shame those MPs who don't support him. I'm very skeptical about how he can reunite Labour and personally I don't think he'll be PM.

Just as expected. And given the larger margin than last time, that should have put paid to any more hopes of trying to turf him out.

But at the same time, this needs to be a wake-up call for Corbyn. He needs to be more clear-cut and publicly visible in articulating his policies and responses to policies, and adopt a stronger media strategy. He's clearly at his best during leadership contests, but he needs to continue that the rest of the time. And while it's normal for most TV interviews on everyday matters to be left to other frontbenchers than the leader, he needs to bring some of his younger colleagues to the fore and reduce the pressure and focus on McDonnell, and to a lesser extent long-time Corbyn allies like Trickett and Abbott. Get people like Clive Lewis, Rebecca Long-Bailey and Angela Rayner more attention.

Also, rumours are suggesting that the geographical breakdown of votes will suggest Burnham voters last time jumped to Corbyn this time.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 24

Luke7456

This is very scary though. I mean people keep assuming he won't get in but these days politics is full of surprises what if he does? The country would be destroyed and you can't rule the possibility out.

Reply 25

303Pharma

Original post by AlexanderHam

But he's not really devoid of charisma, is he? Most of the people who say this are the people who adopt this kind of snotty affectation of being politically unbiased, "Oh I'm so very very superior and above grubby partisanship. I'm almost on another plane of existence, so elevated is my intellect".

Polls consistently show that ordinary voters prefer Smith to Corbyn something like 65 to 35. In interviews Owen Smith always masters the policy brief and is great on the details, and he's always upbeat and in reality is a really nice guy.

Jeremy Corbyn, by contrast, is a crabby old throwback to the 1970s who shouts at journalists who ask him unwanted questions, takes thousands of pounds as payment to be a television shill for a regime that lynches gay men from cranes, and has happily allowed a cult of personality to grow around him both for reasons of vanity and to have a political attack force to menace his enemies.

Anyone who thinks the two are in any way comparable has obviously had a moral sensibility bypass

Wish I could thumbs up ten times :u:

Reply 26

epic within

I for one would like to congratulate Theresa May on being elected PM in May 2020!

Reply 27

troubadour.

Farewell, Labour. :cheers:

Reply 28

Carthaginian

Yeah, but no one's gonna even vote for him the in general election.

Reply 29

AlexanderHam

Original post by 303Pharma

Wish I could thumbs up ten times :u:

Thanks! Owen Smith is not perfect, there are quite a few areas on which he and I would disagree.

But fundamentally speaking, he is actually a genuinely nice guy. He and I and two other people were together in a doorknocking team in Brent Central in the election in May last year, we were out pretty much all day and had some great conversation about socialism, about the political implications of automation and unemployment, and many other things.

He is really intelligent and one of the most optimistic and upbeat people I've ever met. And that really comes across in interviews, I think in normal times as a Labour leader he would do quite well.

The ugly slanders against him by Momentum (that having worked for a pharmaceutical company somehow makes him a bad person... but Corbyn working for an LGBT-murdering regime doesn't), the attacks, the pathetic "They're both unelectable" dismissals that are invariably based on not having bothered to actually spend any time watching Smith interviews... it's all really unpleasant. I'm very disappointed.

Reply 30

AlexanderHam

Original post by epic within

I for one would like to congratulate Theresa May on being elected PM in May 2020!

She must be very strongly considering the likelihood that there is some kind of benevolent deity watching over her.

For Cameron to lose the referendum and resign, destroying Osborne in the process. To have watched while the Brexit boys like Johnson, Gove and Davis destroyed each other without even so much as a blood splatter hitting her, and then for Andrea Leadsom to implode... her luck was incredible.

To go through that and then get handed an absolutely useless leader of the opposition like Corbyn, to have a guaranteed election win on a platter like that... she is the luckiest person in politics for a long time.

The trick for the Tories is not to damage Corbyn too much that he has to step down from the leadership. They want to keep him as long as possible. Though ultimately, if Labour is within 6 or 7 points of the Tories they will just open up on Corbyn and destroy him in the general election.

Reply 31

303Pharma

Original post by epic within

I for one would like to congratulate Theresa May on being elected PM in May 2020!

Dunno. Seems to bland so far She hasn't been clear about on ethic, an ideology she is rooted in. Unlike Thatcher, for all her faults and mistakes, she actually believed in something, even if many totally disagreed with her views.

But I do still hope she has the potential to by one of our great PM's

Reply 32

math42

Original post by AlexanderHam

But he's not really devoid of charisma, is he? Most of the people who say this are the people who adopt this kind of snotty affectation of being politically unbiased, "Oh I'm so very very superior and above grubby partisanship. I'm almost on another plane of existence, so elevated is my intellect".

Polls consistently show that ordinary voters prefer Corbyn something like 65 to 35. In interviews Owen Smith always masters the policy brief and is great on the details, and he's always upbeat and in reality is a really nice guy.

Jeremy Corbyn, by contrast, is a crabby old throwback to the 1970s who shouts at journalists who ask him unwanted questions, takes thousands of pounds as payment to be a television shill for a regime that lynches gay men from cranes, and has happily allowed a cult of personality to grow around him both for reasons of vanity and to have a political attack force to menace his enemies.

Anyone who thinks the two are in any way comparable has obviously had a moral sensibility bypass

Well, I never said he wasn't better than Corbyn, other than saying he seems less principled. I don't think he genuinely is less principled. I think general media bias against Corbyn has actually helped him in a way, turning him into the martyr for the cause of the every day man, going up against the evil establishment and withstanding its many attacks. I certainly don't think Corbyn is charismatic either; I'm just saying, from what I've watched of Owen Smith, he seems like a bit of a non-entity. He is well-spoken and, as you say, a nice guy, but the same was true of Ed Miliband. He doesn't come across as a leader. He doesn't come across as someone the public would get behind. The same is true of Corbyn, and he is marred by far more baggage (like the stuff you mention). But my point is, I don't think Smith was anything close to a panacea for Labour's issues. Do I think it would be better for Labour if he was elected? Well, probably. They'd likely win more seats. But I still think we would be looking at many years of Tory government.

Reply 33

Desi_Scotsman

The only person capable of challenging Corbyn is Sadiq Khan, if and once he quits as the Mayor of London.

Reply 34

303Pharma

Original post by the bear

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That gif is so awesome :badger:

Reply 35

AlexanderHam

Original post by 1 8 13 20 42

Well, I never said he wasn't better than Corbyn, other than saying he seems less principled.

How does he seem less principled? Most people who say this just seem to accept this as the received wisdom; when questioned on why he is supposed to be so, they never seem to be able to come up with anything concrete.

The polls speak for themselves; ordinary voters prefer Smith to Corbyn by a supermajority.

I think general media bias against Corbyn has actually helped him in a way, turning him into the martyr for the cause of the every day man, going up against the evil establishment and withstanding its many attacks

It has helped him with the sort of people who turn up to Momentum rallies or vote Green. But it hasn't helped him with ordinary people. Corbyn is the most unpopular opposition leader since polling began, with an approval rating of minus 41%. The next most unpopular, Michael Foot, was only on minus 29%.

In fact, polls show around 70% of people think the media is biased against Corbyn, but most of those people who think it is still don't like or support him. It's as though they take into account that the media will be biased against him and still make their own decision, which is that they don't like him.

I don't think Smith was anything close to a panacea for Labour's issues.

Nobody said he was. But a Smith leadership would allow Labour to tap into the huge reserve of talent it currently has on the backbenches; Dan Jarvis, Chuka Umunna, Alan Johnson, Sir Keir Starmer, Yvette Cooper, Michael Dugher, Hillary Benn and many others. Labour has more talent

Do I think it would be better for Labour if he was elected? Well, probably. They'd likely win more seats. But I still think we would be looking at many years of Tory government.

I'd say there's no evidence for that at all. Owen Smith didn't really want to be leader that much anyway, it's likely at some point in this parliament he would have handed over to someone like Dan Jarvis or Hillary Benn.

But the claim he couldn't win an election is unsupported by evidence. We know that many more ordinary non-Labour voters would be willing to vote for Labour if he was leader. Owen Smith would be a fairly straight forward Labour leader, and in a time where the Tories arent' particularly popular Labour could win with that. It's only when Labour has a completely useless leader, as it does now, that it can't win in a situation where it should be miles ahead of the Tories.

Reply 36

seaholme

Original post by 303Pharma

Well welcome to at least ten to fifteen years of tory government. Labour, with Corbyn as leader, is totally unelectable.

Unfortunately have to agree with you. Depressing stuff, but then I didn't think Owen Smith was much better, the only thing he had going for him was not being Jeremy Corbyn. Labour lacks strong political figures and the way Corbyn runs the party to alienate fellow MPs, it won't do again for some time.

Reply 37

ManiaMuse

Original post by AlexanderHam

Yeah Theresa May just needs to play it cool and run a tight ship and the election in 2020 will be hers (assuming she still wants to be leader then, she'll be 64).

Avoid too many scandals and new grammar school type divisions within the party, keep the Tories looking like the sensible party with at least a bit of a grasp on the economy while the opposition continues petty squabbling.

Brexit throws up a few complications with different groups of people wanting quite different outcomes. She should make sure she doesn't promise too much (like Camerons underwhelming EU reform package), make sure the Brexit Boys don't say/de anything too stupid and focus on sticking to a solid plan that the public can trust.

Reply 38

Rakas21

Original post by LifeIsFine

I see, well I guess we have alot to celebrate about
(I'd say I identify with the left of the tory party)

I imagine that many of our fellow Tories felt a moment of intense pleasure knowing that the market economy is safe for another decade or so.

Original post by Luke7456

This is true and a little sobering. While his chances of winning rely on a shock event, that small probability could still come to fruition and if it does then we can wave goodbye to the monarchy, our historic alliances and say hello to a million refugees.

Reply 39

Chakede

Polarisation of poltiics in the 2000s. far right getting bigger, far left getting bigger, extremisim ie islamic fundamentalism and gang culture in youth getting bigger. Tradtional middle ground shrinking.

China will invade soon and run the show