Pakistan vs India

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Calling the Mughals that treated Sikhs terribly as simply "Muslims", only encourage some anti-Muslim resentment for Sikhs. It wasn't a war of religion, it was the Sikh struggle against a oppressive regime that used religion to control. Hatred to other humans wasn't something the Guru's encouraged.

At the end of the day they were still muslims

Even stranger is that pakistanis have mughal themed weddings nowadays. Like what?

Reply 81

Zamestaneh

Original post by Ishax

I'm Sikh and it's mainly because of the history. Muslims have killed our god so people resent them for it. They were trying to convert Sikhs to becoming Muslims, Sikh refused to do so and they were killed unfortunately.

Watch Chaar Sahibzaade. It tells the story of how it happened and everything, very heartbreaking and touching to watch. It should be available in English.

I don't personally try to hate Muslims, but the history is just shocking for me to get past sometimes.

In addition to this, Sikhs were attacked again in 1984 and just google it. Everything should come up, I don't really want to go into as I'll get upset.

1. God can never die. A religion is false/a person is a liar or misinformed if they claim God can be killed.

2. Only Sikhs care about the death of the Gurus; the Hindu majority don't, so it bears absolutely no impact on the foreign policy of India.

3. Events in 1984 were perpetrated by Hindus/Indian nationalists.

Reply 82

Indian_Muslim

Original post by 123teddy

i dont think he is an indian muslim

Why?
Just because I disagreed with another Muslim. It is this attitude that annoys me that just because someone is a Muslim they automatically have to agree with everything that another Muslim has to say.

Original post by ksj.11

did you face discrimination there? Oh and i read an article of a group of muslims beating another muslim man really bad because he was singing the national anthem or something. Whys that??

Posted from TSR Mobile

I personally did not although members of my family occasionally did.
Was it the national anthem (Jana Gana Mana) or was it the national song (Vande Mataram)
If it was Vande Mataram then its because the title means "I bow to you Mother" and Muslims are not allowed to bow down to anyone except Allah (swt) although I condemn the fact that anyone should resort to violence for that

Original post by TheBBQ

Even stranger is that pakistanis have mughal themed weddings nowadays. Like what?

Hardly surprising when many Muslims on both sides of the border regard looters and murderers like Bin Qasim, Babur and Aurangzeb as inspirational figures.
However there are Indian Muslims like me who regard tolerant people like Dara Shikoh (Aurangzeb's brother) as inspirational figures.

Reply 83

username1539513

I think Sikh's should have their own country tbh

Reply 84

Lord Samosa

Original post by Ishax

It's not about specific family members, Sikhs were killed also. The point is Muslims killed our Sikh Gurus, which is the main reason for the hatred of Muslims. I've just stated what I've been told as I was growing up from my parents and other family members. I honestly don't think it's anything to do with Kashmir anymore, Sikhs have got past that. My parents have mentioned it to me, but rarely.

I'm friends with Muslims and people of different religions. It's just a sore topic when it comes to Sikhs. I've even said and admitted in this thread, I'm "trying" not to hate Muslims as there's nothing that'll come from it. It's best to maintain the peace and live a happy life.

No, it's fine. It's good to have a debate which is nice and not offending to other religions 👍🏼 It's just the history that bothers me, I try to get past it but it'll take time I guess.

I guess the main point I wanna say is we need to learn to distinguish between the culprit and the group they belong to, there would've been Muslims who had no issues with Sikhs in those days with the Guru's. If the Guru's were accepting of Muslims (those who did no wrong) and people of all religions, then so should we. (Or to aspire to be like that)

It's down to us to explain our history or religion's history to our future generations, but to do so clearly and ensure it isn't taken the wrong way that promotes some hatred to entire groups (which is against the core principle of nearly every religion anyway)

Spoiler

Reply 85

Indian_Muslim

That's another debate entirely :lol:

I'll let @Idunno99 and @TheBBQ (who I think is a Sikh) deal with that :lol:

Reply 86

TheBBQ

Original post by Indian_Muslim

That's another debate entirely :lol:

I'll let @Idunno99 and @TheBBQ (who I think is a Sikh) deal with that :lol:

Looool yes it is and yes I am.

But I'm surprised even some people within the borders hail aurangzeb as a hero.. Terrible :frown:

Reply 87

username1539513

Original post by Indian_Muslim

That's another debate entirely :lol:

I'll let @Idunno99 and @TheBBQ (who I think is a Sikh) deal with that :lol:

I mean, jews have their own country so why not Sikh's? I would visit the hell out of it haha

Reply 88

Lord Samosa

Original post by TheBBQ

At the end of the day they were still muslims

Even stranger is that pakistanis have mughal themed weddings nowadays. Like what?

Does that mean hatred towards me would be justified?

Mughal themed? In what way? I might have seen it just not noticed it. But I imagine Mughals did affect south Asian culture in some aspects during their rule.

But tbh, I've heard nobody talk about Mughals or praise them, I don't think many Pakistanis care for them that much tbh.

Reply 89

Arianax

Original post by Zamestaneh

1. Sikh Gurus were specifically beheaded.

2. That's what I've just stated, I haven't mentioned anything about Hindus.

3. Plenty of Sikhs died in 1984, yet no one came to help.

Reply 90

Arianax

Original post by Lord Samosa

Spoiler

I think it's best to agree to disagree :smile:

Reply 91

Ravenous

Original post by TheBBQ

Even stranger is that pakistanis have mughal themed weddings nowadays. Like what?

Even Indian Hindus do. http://www.marigoldevents.com/2012/03/mughal-themed-wedding-of-nisha-and-jiten/#.V_E8B_ArLIU
And why shouldn't they? Mughals play a huge part in the history of the subcontinent, having ruled it for about 400 years and having massively influenced the culture of it, ranging from language to food to dress to customs etc.
I think it's only really Sikhs who view the Mughals negatively, most Muslims will view them positively and most Hindus are just indifferent to them and view them as being amongst a long line of foreign rulers to rule India.

Reply 92

Indian_Muslim

Original post by TheBBQ

Looool yes it is and yes I am.

But I'm surprised even some people within the borders hail aurangzeb as a hero.. Terrible :frown:

They do sadly. I remember watching a debate on an Indian news channel where a cleric shouted and screamed that "Aurangzeb is our hero and father" or something of the sort :angry:

Reply 93

asif007

Man this thread is so depressing to read. I think it's good you're having an open and honest debate about the history of our countries. I don't know the arguments about Kashmir in as much detail as has been mentioned above so I can't speak about that. But I can't be the only one on here who feels that we must move past the tragedies that happened before/during/after independence - I just want to see peace between both countries. Nearly 70 years after independence and it really disappoints me to see that the relationship is still so fragile that both countries will happily jump at each other and undo all the progress they've made towards securing peace over the actions of backwards extremists who are in such a small minority. Neither India nor Pakistan are innocent in this - both countries have to do more and work together to improve relations instead of each side blaming the other over terrorism. Going to war again isn't the answer cos that's exactly what these extremists want. Both countries would be playing into the hands of terrorists and perpetuating the cycle of violent attacks like what happened in Uri if they were to start another war. Like many of you, I'm fed up of our countries hating each other. But when both governments come out with antagonistic and aggressive comments to the other side in response to the violence in Kashmir, you have to wonder - do they actually want peace? For one thing, the Indian government needs to stop listening to far-right cancers like the MNS when deciding how to respond.

It's really sad to read comments implying that there are still families out there who have been brought up to hold such deep hatred for Muslims/Sikhs/whoever over what happened 70 years ago and the current attacks. How can you persecute an entire religion based on the crimes of a few people? Those people raised with such hatred but who cannot think for themselves only become blind with violence and do not listen to reason, hence becoming radicalised and making the problems worse. We all lost ancestors back then - the best we can do to repair the damage now is to advocate peace and stop people digging up the past at every opportunity.

Reply 94

Arianax

I think it's already happened because take a look at the Media and on TSR. There are always countless articles and threaded made about hatred or anything else towards Muslims, compared to any other religions.

Reply 95

username2748463

We dont need one, we already have this one c
Thank you but no thank you

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 96

Zamestaneh

Original post by TheBBQ

Your ignorance is astounding

Perhaps you could get back to every debate which you never responded to whenever I have called out your ignorance :holmes:

Reply 97

Saba XD

May I know where you got that percentage from? After reading your post, I tried to find it but I didn't get any results. If you can help me out with the source please. :smile:

Reply 98

Arianax

I completely agree with you.

I would rep you if I could.

Reply 99

newusername96

Original post by Indian_Muslim

There are Kashmiris in Pakistan occupied Kashmir that also do not want to be part of Pakistan.
According to a survey by the Royal Institute of International Affairs also known as Chatham House 44% of Kashmiris in the Azad Kashmir part of PoK want Independence and 50% want to join Pakistan. Although Gilgit-Baltistan region was not surveyed.
In Indian controlled Jammu and Kashmir 43% wanted independence and 28% wanted to accede India. Only 2% wanted to join Pakistan.
Admittedly the number who want to join Pakistan in PoK is higher than the number in J&K who want to join India.

India did not blame Pakistan, it blamed Jaish-e-Mohammad, a terrorist organisation operating in Pakistani occupied Kashmir. Jaish-e-Mohammad has been designated as a terrorist organisation by Australia, Canada, India, UAE, UK, United Nations and USA.
By thinking that India blaming a terrorist organisation is the same as India blaming Pakistan means you see "terrorist organisation" and "Pakistan" to be the same thing. Congratulations on scoring such a spectacular own goal! :clap2:

Also the Indian National Investigation Agency caught two individuals from Pakistan occupied Kashmir who helped 4 Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorists to cross over the LoC.
India's Ministry of External Affairs summoned Abdul Basit who is Pakistan's High Commissioner to India and handed over the proof. The foreign secretary said that India was ready to provide Pakistan with consular access to the arrested individuals.

I am kashmiri and i have never met another kashmiri in my life that would prefer kashmir to be controlled by india, at the end of the day it is up to us and not india or pakistan.