Struggling with homophobia in the church.

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Original post by MrsSheldonCooper

I'm curious why are you against homosexuality? Is it because of some fairytale in the sky? You're a disgusting piece of scum by calling OP sick in the head and disgusting. If anyone on here needs guidance from God, it's you and your head (that happens to be in either the 16th century, your ass or both)

Triggered

Reply 21

loveleest

Original post by lowza

I expect the people of the church to be kind and loving, following Jesus in their actions.

I also expect that some people will be against gay marriage and gay people.

I DO NOT expect that someone will come up spouting out utter nonsense about how being gay leads to drugs and alcoholism and disease. Which is NOT backed up by scripture and entirely hateful.

But if you are in a church, a pentecostal church you shouldn’t be shocked that the pastor is preaching about honosexuality.

Reply 22

lowza

Original post by chazwomaq

Hi OP. As they get older I would bet that most Christians have heard hateful things said in the their church that they disagree with. I still remember the sermon explaining why all Arabs are genetically evil...

Think about "church" as the people who attend. What did they think? Strike up a conversation with your friends and see what they think about what was preached. Importantly, ask the leader(s) and gauge their response. If you find that everyone agrees with the preacher, consider how comfortable you would be knowing what those happy clappy people during worship actually believe. But perhaps, you could persuade them why they're wrong.

I would expect to disagree with a proportion of what was preached in a church. Otherwise, you're probably not paying attention. But it's how everyone else thinks about it that really matters IMO.

I think you're right, I may have been overreacting because I was so shocked haha.

I've spoken to two of my friends. The first one agreed with me entirely and the second didn't think what he was saying was hateful at all. But she is also very pro LGBT, so maybe she just wasn't paying much attention. I think it's also because she's been at the church far longer than me so is trying to stick up for the old pastor which I suppose she has some loyalty towards.

I'll try and speak to the current pastors of the church next week, I don't really know them so I always find it a little bit awkward but it's probably the best thing to do.

Maybe it's my calling to try and make the church kinder and more progressive..?

Thank you so much :smile:

Reply 23

Fenneko

Original post by Inexorably

Ah yes every single branch and member of Christianity thinks being homosexual is wrong don't they, glad you could speak on behalf of all of them? Please do tell us how you're such an expert on theology :smile:

What a moronic thing for you to ****ing post.

Don't act dim... You know very well that homosexuality is considered a sin in the Christian religion (and most religions, for that matter). Of course, every individual has different views on the subject, but those most dedicated to the Christian faith will oppose gay marriage, etc.

In response to the OP, you shouldn't be surprised. At least Christians won't hang you up or decapitate you unlike some religion I know. Let them have their opinions. At the end of the day, that's all they are. Opinions.

Reply 24

lowza

Original post by loveleest

But if you are in a church, a pentecostal church you shouldn’t be shocked that the pastor is preaching about honosexuality.

I'm not surprised about that!

My church is overwhelmingly lovely and accepting, more than your normal pentecostal.

So it makes sense that I'd be surprised by someone preaching hatefully.

We've had people talk about it before and the general gist taken from that is, "We don't agree, but we believe that God loves all of his children and Jesus taught kindness and compassion. Therefore we must be respectful and loving to the people we don't always agree with." It's also pointed out a lot that your one sin does not control your entire salvation.

If you went to my church then you'd see how unusual a hateful, fearful preacher is. Especially one that goes off scripture when explaining his views.

Reply 25

lowza

Original post by Joel 96

I get what you're saying but don't agree with the idea that "those most dedicated to the christian faith will oppose gay marriage."

Your stance on LGBT issues does not override your relationship with God nor justify how much of a christian you are.

I'm dedicated to my christian faith, I'm dedicated to the belief of God's love and the idea that if you put your trust and faith that Jesus is the son of God, then you have your salvation.

And yes, that's the issue. What the preacher spoke about were opinions and not scripture, in a church I'm pretty sure it's okay to be surprised by that. I'm not worried about what he thinks, I'm just questioning whether a church that agrees with this is the one for me and I'm wondering where to go from here :smile:

Reply 26

Fenneko

Original post by lowza

I'm sorry, but no. All Christians should defend the definition of marriage. That doesn't mean you need to fight against civil unions, tax breaks, inheritance rights, etc. All these aren't mentioned in the bible, but marriage is, and so is homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9)...

If God created marriage, then no human being should interfere with it. Sorry, but it's the harsh truth.

Reply 27

Fenneko

Original post by MrsSheldonCooper

So much for civil discussion. Blimey.

Reply 28

That Bearded Man

Original post by lowza

I completely agree! I know it's not always older people, but it usually is, that preach so much hate. It totally goes against what Jesus stood for. Practically all of the younger goers of the church aren't homophobic in the slightest.

The good news is that SOME instituitions have given into the youths and the youth groups are incredibly influential within the church, that to me is how certain uni societies function so well, at it benefits the church too.

Some uni societies seek to propagate the norm, and they sound like your kind of church.

It's brave of you to stand up to your church and admit this, too easily youngsters who are church going are brainwashed by their churches views. I doubt you'd get much support from longer members but suggest to your youth colleagues that you want a youth group with more autonomy, talk to seniors about how a more liberal youth wing brings in more dollar. What do your parents think?

Reply 29

_Fergo

Original post by Joel 96

The Bible also says not to shave your hair, not to wear particular fabrics, not to eat some kind of fish and so on.

I expect your hair to be like a bush by now.

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Reply 30

Fenneko

Original post by *Stefan*

The Bible also says not to shave your hair

Original post by *Stefan*

not to wear particular fabrics

Assuming you're making reference to the Leviticus verse, this person explains it better than I:
http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/192/Should-Christian-Wear-Clothing-Mixed-Fibers-Leviticus-1919.htm

Original post by *Stefan*

not to eat some kind of fish and so on.

What's this in reference to?

Btw, I think you've gone off-topic from the OP.

EDIT: You can raise points that can be interpreted in different ways by different people, but the Bible is very sound and clear in regards to marriage and homosexuality.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 31

_Fergo

Original post by Joel 96

Read the verse in context. It surrounds the covenant between the Jews and the Jehovah.
Shaving your hair back then was a sign of conforming towards the worship of other gods. God was simply telling the Israelite's not to conform and dismiss the truth.

Assuming you're making reference to the Leviticus verse, this person explains it better than I:
http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/BQA/k/192/Should-Christian-Wear-Clothing-Mixed-Fibers-Leviticus-1919.htm

What's this in reference to?

Btw, I think you've gone off-topic from the OP.

See, that's the thing - people will try to 'explain' whatever they do not like or cannot understand in the Bible. This happens in every religion. It's always about 'context', but in reality it's context when it conforms to the individual's ethics.

That said, the Bible is not the word of God according to the religion itself - it is man made, and prone to human frailty. To take it as directly God given is meaningless.

Not really - you mentioned that some things cannot change, but evidently they do. Unfortunately, religious people, whether Christians or Muslims or whatnot, often change meaningless issues and ignore others which go directly again other people.

Reply 32

Claire461

Original post by samantham999

Look, I'm against homosexuals but it doesn't mean I'll go out of my way to harass them or kill them because I'm against that. The thing is OP shouldn't be surprised about a church not accepting him because MANY churches are against homosexuality simply because it is wrong. Everyone is free to do as they wish, I don't mean to tempt someone to commit suicide but I think OP is aware that many are against his sexuality thats all

With your *****y attitude, I hope you don't have kids or plan to have any because what will you do if one of them turns out to be gay?

Reply 33

queen-bee

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd

Hi,

I'm sorry that you came across this. Sadly it's quite a common trope in Christianity, regardless of denomination :sadnod:

Ultimately only you can decide/discern whether you need to leave this church. Imho one can follow a denomination/belong to a church congregation without subscribing/adhering to everything that is taught/said there. But I can see this has shocked and surprised you. So it's worth praying over :yes:

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This

Reply 34

The_Lonely_Goatherd

Original post by queen-bee

This

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Reply 35

The Epicurean

Original post by samantham999

Because your church is right? Why are you expecting the religon of christianity to change their views for you because you like effing men?

Let us take the issue of adultery. The Old Testament is quite clear on adultery, it is a sin punishable by stoning:

Leviticus 20:10
'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death."

Yet when Jesus was presented with a woman who had committed adultery, he did not accuse her of "effing married men" but rather he said quite clearly that he did not condemn her. Could you please quote me where in the passage below Jesus uses profanities, denigrates the woman, accuses her of trying to change the religion, speaks to her disrespectfully and fails to live up to the principle of loving thy neighbour?

John 8:1-11
Jesus returned to the Mount of Olives, but early the next morning he was back again at the Temple. A crowd soon gathered, and he sat down and taught them. As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.

“Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

“No, Lord,” she said.

And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

Original post by Joel 96

the Bible is very sound and clear in regards to marriage and homosexuality.

Which is why there isn't a single recorded instance of Jesus condemning homosexuality or homosexuals?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 36

alexschmalex

Original post by The Epicurean

Let us take the issue of adultery. The Old Testament is quite clear on adultery, it is a sin punishable by stoning:

Yet when Jesus was presented with a woman who had committed adultery, he did not accuse her of "effing married men" but rather he said quite clearly that he did not condemn her. Could you please quote me where in the passage below Jesus uses profanities, denigrates the woman, accuses her of trying to change the religion, speaks to her disrespectfully and fails to live up to the principle of loving thy neighbour?

Which is why there isn't a single recorded instance of Jesus condemning homosexuality or homosexuals?

I tried typing this earlier but didn't know how to word it right, you've done it brilliantly :clap2:

Totally agree, sexual sins are all the same. If I can be friends with non-Christians who have sex/children outside of marriage without condemning them, I can do the same with gay people. We don't get to pick and choose which groups to isolate and hate on, Jesus showed us that everyone is deserving of love and respect and it is not for us to judge them. Hate and ignorance doesn't bring anyone closer to God so I'll never understand why some so called Christians cling to it so dearly, it only scares people away

Reply 37

The Epicurean

Original post by alexschmalex

I tried typing this earlier but didn't know how to word it right, you've done it brilliantly :clap2:

Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?”

Jesus answered:

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. This is the first and most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like this one. And it is, “Love others as much as you love yourself.” All the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets are based on these two commandments.

Not to mention that Jesus also states that pointing out other peoples sins is hypocritical as we are all sinners. We should focus upon making ourselves better people first before we start pointing out what may or may not be other peoples faults.

Luke 6:41
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 38

lowza

Original post by The Epicurean

Indeed, you are totally right there. Some people seem to be so focused upon condemning sins. I often hear for example people saying that homosexuality is the worst sin possible. Yet when Jesus is asked specifically what is the most important teaching in Christianity, in his answer he does not say "do not commit this or that sin", but rather he says to love. Jesus explicitly states that love is the most important commandment, and yet some Christians seem so focused on hating and denigrating other people, and they seem to totally miss the message Jesus was giving.

Not to mention that Jesus also states that pointing out other peoples sins is hypocritical as we are all sinners. We should focus upon making ourselves better people first before we start pointing out what may or may not be other peoples faults.

Oh my goodness, thank you SO much for this (and your other post!)

You've given me some solid scripture to fight hateful christians with!

This is what I always try to say. God teaches LOVE above all else, so it's love that we must preach :smile:

Reply 39

Asolare

Original post by Joel 96

This may come as a surprise, but Roman Catholicism is not the only branch of Christianity. Many other branches do not consider it a sin and plenty of churches openly welcome gay people. There is nothing in the Bible regarding homosexuality that can be upheld as ''evidence God hates f---s''.

It is not acting dumb, it is accepting reality. Many Christian denominations simply do not care about homosexuality.