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Would you prefer a soft or hard Brexit?

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Original post by Bornblue
It doesn't defeat the point at all. The question on the ballot paper was not 'should the uk end free movement' or 'should the uk get rid of xyz regulation'. The question was simply about whether we should be a member of the EU. So long as we leave the EU as a member, it does not defeat the point.

* One could in fact argue, as Lib did, that since there result was close and 48% voted remain that a fair result would be a soft Brexit.*


No, it does. People wanted to leave the EU because of these things. It's the same reason people vote for parties and candidates: they want what that party entails, they want what's in their manifesto. It's the whole reason why we vote for things.

It was first past the post. Remain lost and there is no obligation to factor in the percentages, whether it was 48% that voted to remain or 1%. A 'fair result' is the Brexit people were expecting - the Brexit that was sold to the public.
The idea of having a 'brexit' where we remain part of the single market along with free movement shows a contempt for democracy.

A significant factor that contrbuted to the leave vote was having control of immigration. I, along with many others would prefer a brexit that allows us to leave the EU entirely. Hard. Brexit.
Original post by Dandaman1
No, it does. People wanted to leave the EU because of these things. It's the same reason people vote for parties and candidates: they want what that party entails, they want what's in their manifesto. It's the whole reason why we vote for things.

It was first past the post. Remain lost and there is no obligation to factor in the percentages, whether it was 48% that voted to remain or 1%. A 'fair result' is the Brexit people were expecting - the Brexit that was sold to the public.
You don't know why people voted to leave, there were a host of different reasons.
There was no leave manifesto. Leave didn't become a government.* This wasn't like a parliamentary election. Remain lost and therefore we must revoke our membership of the eu.*
**
Someone voting leave because they didn't like the letter 'e' is just as valid as someone voting to leave because they dislike immigration.

The vote was not to form a government. The vote was to leave the eu. The polling card did not ask if we wanted to end free movement or leave the single market. The question asked if we wanted to be a member of the EU. So long as we are not a member, that will be fulfilled.*

a Brexit was sold to the public yes. So long as we are not a member then Brexit will be delivered.

People who voted Brexit quite rightly can expect us to revoke our membership of the eu, that is what they voted for. However they can't claim a mandate om what our future relationship with the eu should look like.*

All the vote established was that we must revoke our membership of the eu. It did not establish what our future relationship will look like.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Conceited
The idea of having a 'brexit' where we remain part of the single market along with free movement shows a contempt for democracy.

A significant factor that contrbuted to the leave vote was having control of immigration. I, along with many others would prefer a brexit that allows us to leave the EU entirely. Hard. Brexit.


It doesn't. The question we were asked was whether we should be a member of the eu, not whether we should curb immigration or leave the single market.

People voted leave for different reasons. Some, like Dan Hannan favour free movement of workers and single market access, others don't. *

We voted to rescind our membership. That is all. As long as we do that we have not shown contempt for democracy.*
A soft one. I don't want tariff barriers however small.
Original post by Bornblue
It doesn't. The question we were asked was whether we should be a member of the eu, not whether we should curb immigration or leave the single market.

People voted leave for different reasons. Some, like Dan Hannan favour free movement of workers and single market access, others don't. *

We voted to rescind our membership. That is all. As long as we do that we have not shown contempt for democracy.*


I'll answer the question then. No. In terms of the vote I think many voters were swayed with the idea of our government having a greater grasp and control over certain things, i.e. immigration. And that having a situation where we hinder these (accepting free movement) would in fact show a certain level of disdain and contempt for democracy.
Original post by Conceited
I'll answer the question then. No. In terms of the vote I think many voters were swayed with the idea of our government having a greater grasp and control over certain things, i.e. immigration. And that having a situation where we hinder these (accepting free movement) would in fact show a certain level of disdain and contempt for democracy.


There is no disdain for democracy. The majority of people voted to rescind our membership of the EU. As long as we do so, whatever the relationship after, it is not undemocratic.

Many people voted leave for different reasons, some on the left, some on the right. The question did not ask whether we should leave the single market or curb free movement. It doesn't matter why voters voted as they did, every reason is just as valid.

Someone voting to leave the EU because they think Junker is a zombie is just as valid as any other reason.
Original post by Dodgypirate
There should be no "soft" or "hard" Brexit. Brexit is Brexit, let's keep it that way.


The problem with the vacuous statement "Brexit is Brexit" is that Brexit is soft or hard.

Brexit relates to the question on the ballot paper: should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

The vote was for leave the European Union so that defines what Brexit is.

The "softest" form of Brexit is to become a member of the European Economic Area and sign up for full access to the single market, accepting the single market rules. Under this arrangement, the United Kingdom will exit the European Union and so it delivers Brexit. We would also have no control over the borders, have to pay in to the EU budget even though we aren't a member, and have to accept the EU rules on our product market and labour market despite not having any say over them. Effectively we would be delegating sovereignty to the EU despite not being in it.

But it would be Brexit. And the people voted for Brexit so anybody complaining about it should stop moaning and accept democracy. Brexit meant Brexit.
I like my brexit the same as I like my women: Soft and gentle

Spoiler

Hard. It's what I voted for.
Reply 30
Avatar for Maker
Maker
20
Original post by Joel 96
Hard. It's what I voted for.


No you didn't, there was no box for hard or soft brexit on the ballot paper.
Soft or hard, Brexit means Brexit. It's all meaningless at the moment.
Can we please stop quoting the PM's ridiculous and meaningless cliché :ta:
Original post by rockrunride
Can we please stop quoting the PM's ridiculous and meaningless cliché :ta:


The fact that is is meaningless is the reason why it was quoted!
Reply 34
Avatar for Wattsy
Wattsy
19
Original post by Bornblue
ECHR is NOTHING to do with the EU.


This has been so badly lost in translation. There is zero mandate for the UK opting out of the *ECHR which makes Theresa May's comments about disapplying the ECHR for military personnel so ridiculous. If she really wanted to cut out vexatious claims she'd change the law around making claims in this area rather than permitting war crimes by exemption.*
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Maker
No you didn't, there was no box for hard or soft brexit on the ballot paper.


I voted Out for the same reason as everybody else. To stop freedom of movement and get back control of our borders. A 'soft' Brexit defeats the whole purpose of why we wanted to leave, and I consider it the exact same as remaining in the EU.
Reply 36
Avatar for Maker
Maker
20
Original post by Joel 96
I voted Out for the same reason as everybody else. To stop freedom of movement and get back control of our borders. A 'soft' Brexit defeats the whole purpose of why we wanted to leave, and I consider it the exact same as remaining in the EU.


How do you know why people voted Brexit, how many have you asked?
Original post by Maker
How do you know why people voted Brexit, how many have you asked?


If they didn't vote for the same reason then they evidently didn't know what they were voting for. It was the absolute pinnacle of the Brexit movement.
Original post by squish562
Like would you prefer a Brexit with continued membership of the single market that will require a continued free movement of people or would you prefer a hard Brexit with our own borders and no membership of the single market, which can negatively impact the economy?

I'm more of a hard Brexit fan, although I am aware of the possibly severe economic consequences that leaving the single market might cause, and it seems like Theresa May is looking to carry out a hard all out Brexit.


I would wait to see what the terms negotiated have been and whether I thought it was good for the country and myself.
Original post by Joel 96
If they didn't vote for the same reason then they evidently didn't know what they were voting for. It was the absolute pinnacle of the Brexit movement.


I guess you didn't pay attention to ANY of the rhetoric, or the post referendum polling, you know, the rhetoric that was about control and the polling saying that that a plurality, near majority, voted leave for that reason.

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