Pakistan vs India

Original post by AlvlVictim

Quaid* I don't see your point really is this supposed to be a rant on Islam? Is this supposed to demonize Jinnah's grandparents for being Hindu Idunno

That a guy who did everything unislamic created a country in the name of islam
Quite likely for his own personal gains

Reply 163

Original post by Ishax

Even though, they beheaded our Sikh Gurus so they should be called "Sikhphobia" :colonhash:

We allow your pilgrims to carry out their pilgrimage in our country and the modern day Pakistanis have nothing to do with the beheadings.But pls keep on being ignorant 😊

Reply 164

Arianax

20

Original post by AlvlVictim

We allow your pilgrims to carry out their pilgrimage in our country and the modern day Pakistanis have nothing to do with the beheadings.But pls keep on being ignorant 😊

I never mentioned Pakistanis, I specifically said "Muslims".

Reply 165

Original post by Idunno99

That a guy who did everything unislamic created a country in the name of islam
Quite likely for his own personal gains

What did he gain? Now I am going to drop some truth bombs on you that you probably never heard before .
Jinnah started in INC he supported independence for complete India but due to Hindus stubbornness and refusal to give separate electorates for Muslims.He realised that the 2 nations can't co exist together anymore and then he joined the league and asked for a separate homeland for the Muslims. He was right which is evident by the killings in Kashmir, beef eating ban,Muslims getting killed/raped/attacked on accusation of eating beef.Gujrat attacks where your current Hindu extremists PM was in charge etc

Reply 166

Original post by Ishax

I never mentioned Pakistanis, I specifically said "Muslims".

Those muslims are the ancestors of Pakistanis and please be specific did Muslims behead Sikhs during a war or just randomly?

Reply 167

Arianax

20

Original post by AlvlVictim

Those muslims are the ancestors of Pakistanis and please be specific did Muslims behead Sikhs during a war or just randomly?

I didn't mention anything about ancestors. It's got nothing to do with Pakistan, plenty of Muslims reside in India and Sikhs have no problems with them being there.

All I said was the reason between for the hatred Sikhs have for Muslims. I don't even care about the "Kashmir", which people are commenting about. Majority Sikhs aren't concerned about that. It's the former.

It wasn't randomly, there wasn't a war. Muslims beheaded Sikh Gurus because they refused to convert to Islam. Therefore, they were beheaded and killed.

"After five day's persecution on 10th November, the most heinous and most horrible scene was enacted before the eyes of Guru who was kept in the iron cage. Aurungzeb thought that the sight of such ghastly deeds might force the Guru to change his mind for embracing Islam."

"After the execution Guru's head and body were placed on the back of an elephant and paraded into the streets and bazars of Delhi. They were kept at the Kotwali in Chandni Chauk after demonstrations. Aurungzeb then ordered that parts of his body be imputated and hung about the city. "Wajudash ra chand hisse namudah atraf-e-shahar-awezand"

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/gurus/nanak9.html

After reading stuff like this and researching more about my own religion, it makes you think "wow". If you read this about Muslims god being treated this way, then you'd understand why Sikhs feel the way they do. They have a reason to feel like this, it's not "randomly" felt.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 168

Original post by AlvlVictim

What did he gain? Now I am going to drop some truth bombs on you that you probably never heard before .
Jinnah started in INC he supported independence for complete India but due to Hindus stubbornness and refusal to give separate electorates for Muslims.He realised that the 2 nations can't co exist together anymore and then he joined the league and asked for a separate homeland for the Muslims. He was right which is evident by the killings in Kashmir, beef eating ban,Muslims getting killed/raped/attacked on accusation of eating beef.Gujrat attacks where your current Hindu extremists PM was in charge etc

Jinnah knew that he would never get to be the leader of a independent united India as he did not have as much influence as compared to Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, Sardar Patel, Subhash Chandra Bose Or Had it been Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi ( He was widely respected/followed by everyone so Jinnah would have had no Chance) etc, so he came up with an Idea to create a new country for which he used religion, there is one thing a powerful person always hates, that is not being in Power. Even after Jinnah created the Muslim League, most muslims still decided to stay with the Indian National Congress, the Muslim league failed to secure more than 3-4 seats in the whole province of Punjab while the Congress secured a majority of the seats and even after partition a large number of Muslims decided to stay behind and not immigrate and today India has a bigger population of Muslims as compaired to the whole population of Pakistan combined

Yes, it is the Hindu extremists who run Bangladesh right? Or is it Democratically elected PM Sheikh Hassina of the Awami league?
It is also Hindu extremists waging a holy war in Syria and Iraq right?
Believe me they will be the last people on earth to take up arms and resort to violence
Any real Hindu extremism that is a threat to the well being of the world is virtually non existential unlike ISIS, Al Nusra, Jaish, Hizbul, Taliban
In 1971 east Pakistan went on to seperate from west Pakistan to create a Secular Democratic country, going against the concept of islamic identity for its cultural identity so this policy of creating a country
on the basis of religion called Islam has failed miserably.
Migh as well create Buddhistan for the Buddhists, Jainistan for the Jains, Parsistan for the Parsis, Khalistan for the sikh, Shiaistan for the shia, Ahmediyastan for the ahmediya,
2 nations cannot exist together? Which is this other nation? India was one nation before 1947
Yes Muslims are being killed and are not given rights?
Our Vice president Muhammad Hamid Ansari is a Muslim, Abdul Kalam Azad(R.I.P) Our former president( People treat him like God here) and father of India's Nuclear Program was Muslim and so are numerous Members of the cabinet, the Indian military also deputy chief of army staffs, Politicians of the BJP are muslim, Salman Khan&Shahrukh Khan( although i dont like them lol )Saif Ali Khan and many others and they get along fine.
Just because you did not want to be ruled by the hindu? Our cabinet has ministers from every religion like Harsimrat Kaur badal a Sikh, Najma A Haptullah a Muslim, Kiran Rijiju a Buddhist, Smriti Irani a Parsi, Jual Oram a Christian etc etc
Does Pakistan have such diverse rulers, answer me ?
LOL India is not ruled by the just the Hindu, today, it is ruled by every religious group present in India
Such is the power and unity that Democracy has brought with it which Sharia law/ Military rule/Fake Democracy ( eg in Pak) would have probably failed to bring
We will do anything to protect our True Democracy just like it was imagined by Gandhi , we will not let him down ever
Also Tagore( Read "Where the Mind is without fear")
Contrary to what people believe, a lot of HINDUS DIED in the GUJARAT 2002 MASSACRES as well
and i doubt i would not be killed if i was seen eating pork( although i am a vegan) in Pakistan, we don't force Pork down the throats of Muslims here
Democracy is better than Sharia law anyways
Our founding fathers wanted India to be
A SOVEREIGN SECULAR SOCIALIST DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC not a Hindutva/Islamic/Sharia Republic and our country has been pretty successful till now in implementing the visions of our founding fathers and i think we are headed in the right direction
India is home to every religion in the world
and 4 major religions have their roots in India( Hinduism, Sikhism,Jainism, Buddhism)

Even his Holiness the Dalai lama and the Tibetan government in exile lives in its seat in Dharamshala( Northern India) having been given exile by Nehru after Tibet was invaded by China such incredible is India UNITY IN DIVERSITY, so we have always tried our best to defend and implement our values
Pakistan has been a Failed project since day one when the Majority of Muslims decided to stay back and the day Bangladesh was created proved that Islam or religion is not a thing that can hold a country togeather.
We are def in a better condition right now being a real democracy unlike a fake democracy Pakistan

I have no idea who controlls Pakistan right now the government or army or the ISI or Terrorists like Hizbul, Haqqani, jaish Taliban or who else i just honestly have no answer to this question, such is the condition of Pakistan. I am glad that we did not follow the lead of Islamic Pakistan and declare the state religion Sikhism/Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism/Some other ism all credit goes to B.R Ambedkar, Gandhi jee and others

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 169

Chakede

15

Original post by AlvlVictim

What did he gain? Now I am going to drop some truth bombs on you that you probably never heard before .
Jinnah started in INC he supported independence for complete India but due to Hindus stubbornness and refusal to give separate electorates for Muslims.He realised that the 2 nations can't co exist together anymore and then he joined the league and asked for a separate homeland for the Muslims. He was right which is evident by the killings in Kashmir, beef eating ban,Muslims getting killed/raped/attacked on accusation of eating beef.Gujrat attacks where your current Hindu extremists PM was in charge etc

'he was so right' that he set up islamic state that purged pretty much all nonmuslims from its borders and encourages further persecution of other muslims because they are shia, has death penalty for being an ahamdiyaa muslim, and spends all state money on training the worlds islamist terrorist to become viewed as the islamsit cesspitt of the world. yes great solution

again jsut for your fyi, after partition and all non muslims fleeing death rape and persecution from pakistan, still more muslims decided to setlle and live in india that wanted to be in jinnahs ' islamic state of pakistan'- what does that tell you genius ?

Reply 170

Original post by azizadil1998

let us just put that ASIDE LOL. But that's nothing to do with like for example people who live in Karachi - whatever it is, it's between the two governments mainly I think.

So there is still hope
Glad to know that there are people in Pakistan that think this way

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 171

Original post by Chakede

'he was so right' that he set up islamic state that purged pretty much all nonmuslims from its borders and encourages further persecution of other muslims because they are shia, has death penalty for being an ahamdiyaa muslim

The speech — “You are free, you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or cast or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State ... Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State” — in which the Quaid explicitly spoke of giving equal rights and freedom

Reply 172

Original post by Chakede

again jsut for your fyi, after partition and all non muslims fleeing death rape and persecution from pakistan, still more muslims decided to setlle and live in india that wanted to be in jinnahs ' islamic state of pakistan'- what does that tell you genius ?

My grandmother is amongst those who fleed India she said reports of Hindus violently overtaking Muslim property was becoming popular and trains full of dead bodies arriving to Pakistan from India I am sure this is just some of the deterring factors that made Muslims stay in India

Reply 173

[QUOTE/] has death penalty for being an ahamdiyaa muslim, and spends all state money on training the worlds islamist terrorist to become viewed as the islamsit cesspitt of the world. yes great solution

Exactly
Lets address that
Wikipedia article "Persecution of Ahmadis"

"Ahmadis are declared Non-Muslims in Pakistan. Hunderds of Ahmadis were killed in the 1953 Lahore riots, 1974 anti-ahmadi riots, May 2010 attacks on Ahmadi mosque in Lahore"
"Religious prosecution has been severe and systematic, their freedom of religion has been curtailed by various ordinances, acts and constitutional amendments"

"When applying for a Pakistani passport, Pakistanis are required to declare that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, founder of the ahmadiyya sect, was a impostor prophet and his followers are non-muslim"

"Ahmadiyyas have been target of various religious groups in Pakistan"

"In India, Ahmadis are Muslim by law, This is supported by the verdict from the Kerala High Court on 8 December, 1970"

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 174

Original post by AlvlVictim

The speech — “You are free, you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or cast or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State ... Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State” — in which the Quaid explicitly spoke of giving equal rights and freedom

Yes , he said that but his speech was in contradiction to what happened in 1956 when Pakistan became an Islamic state with Islam as State religion while India went on to become a Secular country in 1950 , because our leaders realised the failures/horrors of an unsuccessful partition
, to start with they( Gandhi and others) were never in favor of a new country in the name of religion anyways, had Jinnah not came along this partition would have not happened anyway and so many people would habe not died on both sides.
Jinnah was the reason of this communal violence.

Reply 175

Indian_Muslim

6

Original post by Idunno99

while India went on to become a Secular country in 1950 , because our leaders realised the failures/horrors of an unsuccessful partition
, to start with they( Gandhi and others) were never in favor of a new country in the name of religion anyways

Yes exactly.
As the great journalist Mobashar Jawad Akbar said 'Hindus did not get India. Secular people got India... the day my country India becomes a religious rashtra (state) it will suffer the same fate as Pakistan.

So Muslims and Hindus and Sindhis and Christians and Jews and Sikhs and everyone got India for better or for worse'

[video="youtube;lnRTRfg7Ot4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnRTRfg7Ot4[/video]

Reply 176

Original post by Idunno99

Jinnah was the reason of this communal violence.

Was he also the reason for gujrat killings? Is he also the reason of the beef ban in this "secular" country?
Is he the reason people get killed on accusations if eating beef in India?

Reply 177

Original post by Indian_Muslim

Yes exactly.
As the great journalist Mobashar Jawad Akbar said 'Hindus did not get India. Secular people got India... the day my country India becomes a religious rashtra (state) it will suffer the same fate as Pakistan.

So Muslims and Hindus and Sindhis and Christians and Jews and Sikhs and everyone got India for better or for worse'

[video="youtube;lnRTRfg7Ot4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnRTRfg7Ot4[/video]

I totally agree with you bhai!
I doubt Indian will ever be a religious rashtra ever because that is against the constitution unconstitutional
A powerful secular democratic India = Better world
A house divided cannot stand -
Abraham Lincoln
United we rise , divided we will fall

I am confident that we will always be united and make our all our founding fathers watching over us from above are proud

Abdul Kalam sir(God bless him) always wanted India to be a superpower, we will turn his aspirations and dreams into reality in the coming decades and Tagore always wanted India to be secular, a place where no narrow mindedness exists, where everyone works hard and does awesome stuff where it be no discrimination on the basis of religion or class/caste or anything. Into thy heaven of freedom my father, let my country awake! Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high! Not only Tagore but all the architects of our constitution.
Yes M.J Akbar has now joined BJP and is Minister of State for external affairs

Reply 178